Originally Posted By: Julie
Originally Posted By: clausti
Originally Posted By: Julie

Ethics aren't different if you're on a 5.12 or a 5.2 ... the only thing different are the egos or lack of humility involved. So yeah, bad on them for leaving it there, no matter who or what.

more people want to climb easier routes. that makes it different, because the chances of someone else's ascent being buggered by gear on a 5.12 at the notoriously-'sandbagged' gunks seems a lot less likely than on a 5.6.

You're still saying that different rules apply to you because you climb 5.12.

nope. i'm saying the same ethics apply- don't inconvenience other people with your shit. on a climb with a line, maybe that means you do a li'l "french free" so that you're not flailing for an hour on second. on a climb where it's unlikely to get more than one party on it that day... who the fuck cares if there is some gear on it for a few hours. and i didn't climb kc- i don't climb 5.12 trad. but there IS a difference between traffic on easy climbs and hard climbs.

It's the symbolism that carries the insult to the huddled masses, not the gear. That's what ethics are about.

i really hope that was sarcasm, because it was definitely horse shit.

I wish you well too, but that doesn't change my mind about the ethics of it.

i didn't wish you well. (though i don't wish you ill.) there are two of us replying.

edited to add: for what it's worth, i'm in favor of bolt anchors. it saves trees and clifftop environments in general.

Edited by clausti (06/05/09 01:53 AM)