So I still stand at 1 for 5. The advocate had three options today and I tried thee steepest since it looked like it might take the best screws from the ground. Two hangs later, it is still on my list. BTW- Instant Karma looks almost feasible...almost. Actually, just sac up and have at it, she's good to go. It's been led thinner. Hell, it's probably been led this week! The kitchen will be in good shape by next week. Who's free thursday?