Originally Posted By: Julie
I agree with what Doug said. In addition, item #0 needs to be some really heavy-handed moderation of accident threads. I tried to beat some sense into DJP (and I did it away from the accident thread at the time) but, alas, he seemed to get the point for about 3 minutes then went back to the regular monologue. So someone needs to step up as far as accident threads are concerned.

I'm on the fence but about to quit FB. Agree with keeping this site its own island. Enough with the "integration" already.


I understand that some of you do not agree with me. And I don't know why you don't send me a private letter. Perhaps I should try and explain again what I am saying because I don't think I have made myself clear enough: What I am posting about or why I am posting this and that in the accident thread. There are a couple of things going on here.

First, I see in some of these letters that I am being taken out of context.

Second, in the thread we have: "hard to fathom, considering the preventability … A needless, preventable death such as this is beyond explanation." "nothing like this should happen, ever." Whether you want to admit it or not there is blame in the thread and the message is that the person that set up the top rope has blood on his hands. And maybe you are OK with that, but I'm not. I am sure the accident was not intentional; accidents do not have to be anyone's fault per-say. But it is the fault of the climbing community. And when these kinds of statements are made in the thread they need to be answered in the tread because family members and the people who set up the anchor will be reading them. Such thinking is misplaced. They refused to take into account that we are just as reckless as the persons who set up that anchor, and we will continue to be reckless, it is just on another level.

Third, this is not a legitimate climbing accident because these people involved were not any more climbers then they were mountaineers. It is more so an unfortunate chain of events and misconceptions that lead up to a realization of what rock-climbing is.

Fourth, there are a number of ways something like this could have happened that are easy to explain that would prove it was not the fault of the person who set up the rope. I went over all these at length to take heat off the party that set up the rope but now the heat is back on big time. We have yet to know what happened. What's up with that?

But I can tell you what will mean something, and that is if Stephanie's death is not in vain. That would be if we promise to talk to others on the carriage road and new climbers and remember Stephanie. Then there is a point in all these things and all these posts when Stephanie means something to all of us. Everything else is meaningless unless we can do something to help prevent the next accident.

Is this something we can do? Perhaps can we start talking to people and learning how to help them prevent accidents? If not, if we cannot be self governing, I would assume that sooner or later the state will need to step in and take over. The best solution however would be that the Preserve allow the AMC to require safety certifications for climbing as they did before. And I think today that the climbing community should and would support such certifications. And in this way climbing could be opened up again in places where it has been banned.

What do you think?
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The Mohonk Mountain House and the Mohonk Preserve have done a great job protecting the environment thus far, but ... it's all down hill from here http://youtu.be/9AU8fMo8v4k.