Hey Doug. You seem to be pointing out a bunch of things that don't really address the purpose of the original thread. You're also talking about parking rules and ethics in the current context, instead of when it was originally posted. Which was 2009, and when it was still very acceptable to park there for 30 minutes to an hour. As far as the Mohonk Preserve closing at sunset, sure it says that on their brochures and at their kiosks, but if you tell me that you've never been on the property after sunset or before sunrise you then you probably have not been climbing here very long. It widely accepted that people use the preserve outside of those hours. WIDELY accepted. I appreciate the points you bring up, but it seems like you may have another reason behind bringing these points, besides the letter of the law. Do you agree or disagree?