Actually I appreciate you posting on this thread. I've since re-read the whole thing and I found it really entertaining. I still stand by the initial intent of the thread, and by the style and ethics opinions I offered. I think I could have refined how obstinate I was only 4 short years ago. I find now that being a little nicer helps smile

I did actually read a little motive in your post that seemed like it went beyond the seemingly innocuous rules I may have violated. If you didn't have a different opinion of the ethics and style debate than I apoligize. If you are implying I may possibly be a little hypocritical because of offenses, then I respect that too. I personally don't see the correlation between parking in the lot 45 minutes versus 30 minutes, and local climbing ethics.

If I remember correctly back to that evening, the group hanging out in the pull off was pretty generic looking, and nothing about them suggested that there was a high probablity that they were climbers, and even more...the climbers in question. It was merely a wondering thought in my head. "Wouldn't it be ironic/funny/coincidence if we walked out with gear hanging off our harness that belonged to the people standing there and none of us realized it"

I love ethical debates and I could go back and forth forever with them. It's always interesting to see how peoples brains work, and how they draw conclusions for themselves. Of course...mine are always the best smile