Actually I appreciate you posting on this thread. I've since re-read the whole thing and I found it really entertaining. I still stand by the initial intent of the thread, and by the style and ethics opinions I offered. I think I could have refined how obstinate I was only 4 short years ago. I find now that being a little nicer helps

I did actually read a little motive in your post that seemed like it went beyond the seemingly innocuous rules I may have violated. If you didn't have a different opinion of the ethics and style debate than I apoligize. If you are implying I may possibly be a little hypocritical because of offenses, then I respect that too. I personally don't see the correlation between parking in the lot 45 minutes versus 30 minutes, and local climbing ethics.

If I remember correctly back to that evening, the group hanging out in the pull off was pretty generic looking, and nothing about them suggested that there was a high probablity that they were climbers, and even more...the climbers in question. It was merely a wondering thought in my head. "Wouldn't it be ironic/funny/coincidence if we walked out with gear hanging off our harness that belonged to the people standing there and none of us realized it"

I love ethical debates and I could go back and forth forever with them. It's always interesting to see how peoples brains work, and how they draw conclusions for themselves. Of course...mine are always the best