Yes Chris, Dana got it, I was making a slippery slope type joke. But also, when you mentioned down-soloing, I assumed you had already up-soloed.

I didn't think you seriously meant to suggest that we ought to install anchors so that folks could come after work and do only one pitch. Having something there so a local or two can amuse themselves after work is really asking for a hell of an entitlement.

Although Joe said earlier that I haven't changed my position and that I was living in some fantasy world related to how things used to be, he's wrong on both counts. I accept and believe in the need to have rappel routes, and haven't proposed walking back as any kind of general solution for years.

But I still don't believe that we ought to tolerate convenience anchors put anywhere. The chaotic proliferation of such anchors is what started the Preserve on its bolting projects, which have certainly failed to stem the tide.

A host of convenience anchors is ugly, potentially dangerous when they route descending parties down ascent routes, and inevitably clogs multipitch routes with people doing and then top-roping just the first pitch. That's bad resource management and it degrades the Gunks climbing experience.

The intelligent approach, which the Preserve learned after its initial mistakes, is to have descent routes which, as much as possible, do not interfere with ascent routes, at least not popular ones. Routing parties straight down Sixish violates every principle of good sense mentioned above, and then includes the additional unpleasantness associated with a very small stance. It is almost a textbook case of what not to do, unless your goal is to bring Chrimson Chrysalis back East.

On another issue, the idea that Joe's anchor was "stolen" is a modern concept that I think should at least be argued. From the advent of chromemolly pitons, it was the norm that people could add anchors, and people could remove anchors. That's the way it was all over the U.S. The breaking of this symmetry is really quite recent. Now we hear that people can add anchors but then they "own" them and removing them is stealing. In other words, those who want to add anchors have some sort of god-given right to do so, and once those anchors are there, no matter how stupidly located or unnecessary they might be, they are sacrosanct. This is, of course, a recipe for wrapping the cliffs in nylon, at which point they will be an absolutely ideal venue for those after-work jaunts.