OK, I think I followed all of that. When I solo I usually down solo easier routes. I like doing the routes around Jackie because I like coming back down Betty. Same with Frog's Head area because of Easy-O. If I am out after work with friends that are new to climbing I will do a route like Sixish and end at the p1 anchor. I don't like down soloing Sixish because I find the moves 20 feet up kind of weird so it's nice to be able to rappel. I tend to avoid the Trapps on weekends when the weather is nice so I am unfamiliar with these rappelling traffic jams on Sixish. Is it really that big of a problem?

Originally Posted By: rg@ofmc

I didn't think you seriously meant to suggest that we ought to install anchors so that folks could come after work and do only one pitch. Having something there so a local or two can amuse themselves after work is really asking for a hell of an entitlement.

I know I joke around quite a bit, but I really don't see a problem with anchors in the Trapps and Near Trapps that enable someone to lead a single pitch and then rappel. I mean isn't all of the climbing in the Gunks an entitlement? As far as "having something for a local or two to amuse themselves after work" seems to imply that everyone else is out there climbing for some greater purpose. I climb for many reasons but I think the main reason is because I find it incredibly fun. Am I really in the minority here because I am a local that climbs after work for fun and don't always get roped into doing multi-pitch routes. (sorry, just a bit of wordplay there)

Do you (RG and others) see the p1 anchors at the top of Criss Cross, RoseLand/Shitface, Workout Wall, BirdLand etc... the same way?

I guess I am very curious about all of this because though I have read your arguments (and others) and understand what you are saying I just see it so differently. It also seems that there is a pretext that anyone who doesn't see it a certain way has a shallow view of the larger context of the issue. I understand that you and many others that have climbed here for a long time may be seeing a wider picture that perhaps I can not somehow grasp, but the arguments don't feel compelling enough to win me over...yet.