A guide who I took a learning to lead two day lesson from about 12 years ago at a different location once told me that somehow The Gunks manages to absorb the pressure put on it by its proximity to such a population in a way that other areas never could. I guess that was true then because when you read threads like have occured in the last few pages here, you realize it can't accomodate that pressure and stay true to its heritage. Rich, it's sad that you're one of the few carrying the torch you are carrying. It's even more sad that the only governing/regulating body that has the power to preserve the heritage of climbing there, doesn't. And it is perhaps a little shocking to me that at least one climber can't see the trees for the forest. Back to lurking. I suppose my status of non-Gunks climber doesn't give me a valid voice anyway. Keep fighting Rich, it's worth it.