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#10900 - 01/08/04 08:44 AM Re: My New Ascent Skiis
crackers Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 03/21/01
Posts: 3424
Loc: pdx
I got a pair of K2 clicker ascent skiis. They're real short, just over a meter, and real fat-10 or 12 cm at the tails.

Walking uphill in thigh deep powder has never been easier. Never. Its so nice. I just cruise up, barely sinking and wondering why it took me so god damn long to get them.

I hope to never posthole again.

To have plush turns on my board in fat fresh powder is so much better after skinning up than it was after postholing.

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#10901 - 01/09/04 01:22 PM Re: My New Ascent Skiis [Re: crackers]
Fraser Offline
old hand

Registered: 08/15/02
Posts: 700
Loc: New Canaan, CT
Are those AT skis? What kind of bindings did you get. I tried out the Freerides made by BD and liked them.

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#10902 - 01/09/04 08:30 PM Re: My New Ascent Skiis [Re: crackers]
empicard Offline
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Registered: 08/29/01
Posts: 2956
Loc: LI, NY
has anyone tried one of those new hybrid snowboard skiis? at least thats what i think they are. i saw them in i think the mtn gear catalog. looks like its skiis for the ascent, then they link together to make a snow board.
too bad you cant do it on the fly, would be great for flat areas at your average ski mtn.
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#10903 - 01/09/04 09:01 PM Re: My New Ascent Skiis [Re: empicard]
Fraser Offline
old hand

Registered: 08/15/02
Posts: 700
Loc: New Canaan, CT
Yo empi,

When I was in Whistler over Christmas I did a back country ski tour for two days with a few guys on snow boards (everyone but me and the instructor were on snow boards). These were "split boards". They had attachments to click the boards together. They were good for skiing back country powder. BUT, they took forever at every changeover. The bindings had to come off each time and be switched, the boards taken apart or put back together. It was a pain the butt to wait on those guys the whole time. The only good part about that from my perspective was that it gave me ample time to eat or whatever. But each changeover was like 30 minutes for the guys to redo their boards, which in theory was a lot of skiing. Now if we had the time we probably would have skiied a few more runs (each run taking 30-60 minutes to ascend and descend). Over the course of a day this could make a difference. Add to that the inconvenience of flat parts once in down hill modes, well its just not as efficient. The guys all loved the experience though...Also the boards are really heavy and they suck for groomed trails apparently - don't know why since I'm not a snow boarder - but I think that they couldn't edge very well.

Dana

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#10904 - 01/10/04 12:05 AM Re: My New Ascent Skiis [Re: Fraser]
zachres Offline
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Registered: 04/03/03
Posts: 495
Loc: In the midst of a "psychotic b...
If the guuys you were with took "30 minutes" to change form split to single plank.... they either had home-made rigs or were,, ahem,,, not too sharp.

I have demo'd Voiles and Burtons (the two hardwar setups available), and both take about 45 seconds longer than it takes for an AT or Tele-dude to rip skins and get ready.

Check out:
www.couloirmag.com
for a ton of threads on Split Boards.

Those who know will tell you that they are the ultimate Backcountry tool.

Of course, what do I know???


Zach
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#10905 - 01/10/04 09:13 PM Re: Why Ascent Skiis over Split decks [Re: zachres]
crackers Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 03/21/01
Posts: 3424
Loc: pdx
I've ridden voile and burton split boards as well, and anybody taking thirty minutes to switch them over is a moron. Or doing it for the first time ever. Even back in '94 when the sucked, it took max of five minutes...

Ascent skis are very short skis with a binding compatible to your riding boot. I use K2 clickers, and i have K2 clicker compatible ascent skis. They are a bit longer than snowblades, and have full sized skins like a fatboy ski would use, plus kicker plates-things that lift your heel up.

I infinitely prefer ascent skis/snowboard to split snowboards. I can ride with my preferred deck depending on conditions, with my favorite bindings. All of the gear is about the same weight as the burton split and a pair of burton bindings. Plus it really is a much more versatile solution. (don't need 'em? leave em!) As ascent skis are so much shorter than any snowboard i can ride, i can manuever around rocks and along ridges much more easily. I can still kick and glide and do my tele turns if i want as well. My experience with split snowboards is that they tend to get screwed up in the inside edges really easily. Supposedly the new burton split fixes this problem, but i am not sure myself.

ps: we're negotiating with couloir, frequency and snowboarders journal about an article on one of our upcoming trips. Should be in a spring issue. I will let you all know when i know which one it will be in...

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#10906 - 01/12/04 02:06 PM Re: Why Ascent Skiis over Split decks [Re: crackers]
Fraser Offline
old hand

Registered: 08/15/02
Posts: 700
Loc: New Canaan, CT
They were all doing breaking down and putting back together the boards for the first time ever. That said after two days they didn't get any faster. Maybe it was a "renter's rig" and not what you guys would normally uses but I doubt there is that much variety in a split board.

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#10907 - 01/12/04 02:36 PM Re: Why Ascent Skiis over Split decks [Re: Fraser]
crackers Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 03/21/01
Posts: 3424
Loc: pdx
were they high? how high? really really high?

dunno...i got real fast putting them back together in a few days.

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#10908 - 01/12/04 03:08 PM Re: Why Ascent Skiis over Split decks [Re: Fraser]
Chooch Offline
old hand

Registered: 11/15/99
Posts: 1184
Loc: South East PA
I hate skiing with most snowboarders for this reason. Seems they love sitting on their bum and fiddling with bindings and talking to their bros. Also feel the need to hike back up and hit a bump again and again. I just want to go that way really fast and when something gets in the way, turn. Top to bottom baby.
Boarder pants have a built in bum pad made for sitting. Figures.

I think it's the whole skater thing making a cross over. Skaters ride a curb for endless hours and commune with their bros. Then they go to the mountain and do the same. Skiers were never told they should do this and only stop to catch their breath or help someones yard sale.
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#10909 - 01/12/04 03:24 PM Re: Why Ascent Skiis over Split decks [Re: Chooch]
phlan Offline

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Registered: 02/11/00
Posts: 2778
Loc: Gardiner, NY
Somehow that sounds a lot like bouldering too sit around for hours on the crash pad, smoke and socialize with your "posse" whatever floats your boat I guess
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#10910 - 01/12/04 05:49 PM Re: Why Ascent Skiis over Split decks [Re: Chooch]
zachres Offline
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Registered: 04/03/03
Posts: 495
Loc: In the midst of a "psychotic b...
Quote:

I hate skiing with most snowboarders for this reason. Seems they love sitting on their bum and fiddling with bindings and talking to their bros. Also feel the need to hike back up and hit a bump again and again. I just want to go that way really fast and when something gets in the way, turn. Top to bottom baby.
Boarder pants have a built in bum pad made for sitting. Figures.

I think it's the whole skater thing making a cross over. Skaters ride a curb for endless hours and commune with their bros. Then they go to the mountain and do the same. Skiers were never told they should do this and only stop to catch their breath or help someones yard sale.




Perhaps you're talking about resort riding instead of BackCountry???? Perhaps you're in the wrong terrain, with the wrong people. I doubt it has anything to do with which tool they're using.

Anywhoo, I spent my first 2 days on my new '04 Burton S Series Split Board 172 this weekend, in the Lake Tahoe BC (Mt. Tallac on Saturday and Mt. Ralston on Sunday), and here's what I can tell you;

Ascent - In good and bad conditions, I was able to climb a steeper line than skiers... i'm sure it has something to do with the wider base of support and beefier ski-crampons. Icy, hard, wind-pack traverses were a little more tricky than with skis, but not so much that they were more than a minute or two ahead of me, or that I ever felt like I was in danger.... it's just a little harder to edge with soft, snowboard boots.

Change over time - no more than 5 minutes from rippin' skins to droppin' in, even in shitty, icy, windy conditions on a thin, exposed ridge. And, the new Burton interfaces are really sturdy.

Weight - A little heavier than my resort rig, but a.) It made the board feel a lot more stable on the big, upper-mountain lines, and only moderately harder to turn in trees. b.) I'll take an extra poun on my legs verses 4 on my back any day.

Ride - We made turns in; bullet-proof wind-pack, 2-inch breakable crust, corn, and super-glue wet snow.... And the board rode like a dream... Even, dare I say, better than my beloved Arbor.

To the naysayers.... enjoy hiking up in snow-shoes, or tiny aproach skis, with a board on your back; enjoy the ride down with all the extra weight and crap on your back. I'll pass you with a grin on my face in both directions.

Zach
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#10911 - 01/12/04 09:12 PM Re: Why Ascent Skiis over Split decks [Re: zachres]
Fraser Offline
old hand

Registered: 08/15/02
Posts: 700
Loc: New Canaan, CT
Well, in defense of skiing with boarders (not to be confused with doctors without borders), I was able to leisurely eat at every stop and tend to nature issues, talk to the guide, etc., but they were constantly in motion without a break. Also, I got to feel superior since they had problems falling all the time in the deep powder and getting started again, whereas I, mediocre skier that I am, didn't embarrass myself as much as I would have with other good skiers. Finally, they seemed to have problem with kick turns, but then again we practiced that in the wrong place - right above a cliff at the top of the piste. I got gripped watching them fumble around learning the technique. Probably the biggest mistake the guide made in two days. (I just took off my skis like a wuss and turned them around!!!)

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#10912 - 01/12/04 09:51 PM Re: Why Ascent Skiis over Split decks [Re: Fraser]
zachres Offline
addict

Registered: 04/03/03
Posts: 495
Loc: In the midst of a "psychotic b...
Yep...

Sounds like newby split-boarders to me

I too have been in that less than desirable position. Just like anythig else, a little practice goes a long ways.

There's nothing like big, trench-laying, high-speed, rooster-tailing snowboard turns on big mountains, but to be efficient at getting there and getting home takes some practice and finesse.

Zach
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Give me liberty, or give me death!

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#10913 - 01/13/04 12:21 PM Re: Why not skiiers... [Re: Chooch]
crackers Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 03/21/01
Posts: 3424
Loc: pdx
I hate riding BC with most skiiers cause they can't keep speed on pow. Plus, they're often fat and out of shape, unable to skin quickly. And then, they keep whining about eating lunch...aargh!

Hey, ZachRes, it sounds like you're issuing a challenge there big-boy! I'll just have to say that you're welcome to fly over here and find out how wrong you are about your weight assumptions and all the rest. You have at least 6 pounds more weight than i do...

But as for snowboarders falling in powder? I gotta agree, rank beginners. Thats just bad.

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#10914 - 01/13/04 05:49 PM Re: Why not skiiers... [Re: crackers]
zachres Offline
addict

Registered: 04/03/03
Posts: 495
Loc: In the midst of a "psychotic b...
Crackers,.

Do I know you?... you must be reffering to my all-time peak weight/couch potato period, before my 3-month work hiatus in the Gunks

Anywhoo, a lot of weight comparison has been done by a friend of mine who gets hooked-up by Burton, Osprey, and Mountain Hardwear... he has been in the Tahoe BC for about 14 years and is a HUGE proponent of split boards. The Voile hardware tends to be a little bit lighter, but the Burton interface clamps their board together and makes for an amazingly better ride.
How much do your approach skis or snowshoes weigh? 2 or 3 pounds? Consider that the additional weight of the Burton Interface is about 1 pound, and that's a very generous number...
Subtract the weight of the board form your back + the weight of the aproach tools on your back for the descent, and you get a true picture of the wieght and effort savings.

I've snowshoed, and I've split-boarded, and I guarantee you that I would go split anyday, given the choice.

BTW - Are we talking NY backcountry or Istanbul backcountry? You can keep New York. I'm not a big fan of trees and hardpack

You're welcome to come out West, anytime. Rumor is, we're having a "Split-fest '04" in SLC, first weekend of April... But i can't guarantee that I have limited faith in the person who is organizing it.

Zach
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Give me liberty, or give me death!

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#10915 - 01/27/04 12:12 AM Re: Why not skiiers... [Re: zachres]
zachres Offline
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Registered: 04/03/03
Posts: 495
Loc: In the midst of a "psychotic b...
http://www.telemarktalk.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=15377

Photos near the bottom of the thread...

This was Saturday, Tahoe BC... 3 split-boarders and 1 tele-dude.



I'll take my split over ascent skis any day.

Zach
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Give me liberty, or give me death!

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#10916 - 01/27/04 07:11 PM Re: Why not skiiers... [Re: zachres]
crackers Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 03/21/01
Posts: 3424
Loc: pdx
i'll post some shots some day soon:\ your buddies are nice.

just got back from five days bc camping/riding. 2000 vertical meters of drop, chutes, etcetera etcetera.

1.6 meters of snow in this time frame. went from 7 to 5 block test points, but just rode barely off piste in knee deep for the last day...

i am tired, but SO happy. 60 mph no turn 1k vert meter descents do me in...

i'll take anything free, but i love my ascent skis. especially for mountaineering...

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#10917 - 01/28/04 05:39 PM Re: Why not skiiers... [Re: zachres]
pedestrian Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/05/02
Posts: 2244
Loc: a heavily fortified bunker!
Quote:

Zach comes from the east coast and was calling the 4inches of new snow bottomless.




Hey Zach... looks like you need to teach your new buddies some respect :-)

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#10918 - 01/28/04 07:06 PM Re: Why not skiiers... [Re: pedestrian]
zachres Offline
addict

Registered: 04/03/03
Posts: 495
Loc: In the midst of a "psychotic b...
Oh, yeah.. we had a whole East-Coast, West-Coast battle goin' all day....
It ended with my trademark 15-foot cliff-drop to face-planet to incoherent babbling and temporary amnesia

The dude that shot all of those pictures is actually an ex-pro freestyle snowboarder. He gets hooked up by Burton, Mountian Hardwear, and Osprey in return for lots of backcountry footage and promotion....... so, it's hard for me to show him up

Zach
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Give me liberty, or give me death!

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#10919 - 01/28/04 09:22 PM Re: West coast? East coast? [Re: zachres]
crackers Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 03/21/01
Posts: 3424
Loc: pdx
but the pics did look like y'all had fun...besides, westerners don't have a clue how to ice skate vertical terrain.

off for nine days of first tracks tommorrow. We're gonna ride five or six small mountains that have never been skiied before. They got twenty cm of fresh in the past 3 days, and a major storm should hit us on tuesday.

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#10920 - 01/28/04 09:34 PM Re: Why not skiiers... [Re: zachres]
pedestrian Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/05/02
Posts: 2244
Loc: a heavily fortified bunker!
Quote:

...battle goin' all day....
It ended with my trademark 15-foot cliff-drop to face-planet to incoherent babbling and temporary amnesia




I bet that showed 'em, eh? Note to Zach - cutting off one's nose out of spite might make you look tough too, but it's generally frowned upon. Hey, if 4 inches of pow is bottomless, can we call you "Mr. 4-inch" from now on?

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#10921 - 01/28/04 11:56 PM Re: West coast? East coast? [Re: crackers]
zachres Offline
addict

Registered: 04/03/03
Posts: 495
Loc: In the midst of a "psychotic b...
Damn that's nice... what range are you in? How many vertical feet, etc..?

Do you have any pics?
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#10922 - 01/29/04 07:25 AM Re: Turkey [Re: zachres]
crackers Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 03/21/01
Posts: 3424
Loc: pdx
At ten local time, we're flying to Trabzon. From there we will be going tp a place called Zigana Pass. Zigana is about 50km due south from Trabzon. We'll be at our hotel at about 1 am.

Zigana pass is in the Kackar mountains of Turkey, along the black sea heading towards Iran. They're also called the Pontic Crest. The Zigana massif's summit is about 8300 feet, and its skiable down to 4000. So, about 4300 vertical feet. Maybe a bit more. At 4000 feet, they have over a meter of snow on the ground, with the aforementioned snowfall in the past few days. The snow in this range tends to be somewhere between sierra concrete and utah fluff.

Usually, we've been skiing the BC at a place called Uludag. We've been averaging 15cm fresh a week, and since we are the only people who ski powder, its sorta all ours. We're encouraging and teaching the local kids that powder rules, but they're a bit slow on the uptake.

I have tons of pictures, and will have a lot more, but we need to get our website up when we get back from this trip to show them off...its www.outdoorturkey.com , but there aint nothing there right now. I have to get the basic text written this week and then we'll put up the site nice and professional like.

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#10923 - 01/29/04 07:40 AM Re: Uludag [Re: zachres]
crackers Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 03/21/01
Posts: 3424
Loc: pdx
i put up a picture at www.fotolog.net/gcfw
the chutes in this picture are too unstable to ski so far, but we've been hitting other places with similar terrain but without the sun. On the left side of the picture you can see a pretty decent sized sluff. The chute from the left side of the top down around, left of the sluff as you'd ride and on down is about 2200 vertical feet.

more in a week and a half.

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#10924 - 01/29/04 04:36 PM Re: Uludag [Re: crackers]
zachres Offline
addict

Registered: 04/03/03
Posts: 495
Loc: In the midst of a "psychotic b...
Alright... who can help me find part-time work in Turkey?????
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#10925 - 01/29/04 08:33 PM Re: Uludag [Re: zachres]
crackers Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 03/21/01
Posts: 3424
Loc: pdx
you can always find work teaching english if you have a teaching english thingy.

stuck in the airport waiting for the plane. Luckily, economy was full so we had to fly business class and thereby wait in the lounge. Its only about $40 difference, so...

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#10926 - 02/06/04 08:52 AM Re: Zigana [Re: crackers]
crackers Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 03/21/01
Posts: 3424
Loc: pdx
Well, our trip was a total failure. There was a hot wind, locally called a lodos wind and roughly analogous to a chinook, which melted all the unconsolidated snow off the mountains. We watched it go from about a meter of fluff to mud and grass in one day. The pits we dug were all zeros. We only rode around our hotel.

i'll have pictures up of the mountain early next week. If it was developed, it would be one of the worlds best ski areas when there wasn't this god damned wind. (in the ten years i've been in and out of turkey, i've seen this wind twice. its pretty rare.) Plus, if the slopes had been groomed, ridden or otherwise consolidated, the snow would still be there...

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