Anyone have a mental note they use for remembering when to begin the pitch two traverse on Beginner's Delight?

I've failed in three tries to find anything that feels right. I think i'm going up too high.

If anyone has a marker they can recall, I'd love to know what it is.

-d

Not really meaning to be facetious but......when the corner looks and feels harder than 5.3. I figure that if I'm on a 5.3 and find myself doing 5.6 moves, I'm probably off route.

Well, it seems to be different each time I do it, but I generally begin to traverse about where the corner is arching backwards (ie, to climber's left) at maybe 20 degrees beyond vertical. I think if you look left at that point, there is a left-pointing flake, about 15 feet out and maybe a few feet above your head.

Lemme know any time you want to get back on it. Found lots of booty there last year!!!!

Irish

For the regular p2 traverse, I just followed the Williams description: about 40 ft. up, go left 10 ft. until below a small left-facing corner. Go up the corner, then left again about 15 ft. Then up left past a dirty ledge to boulders below a left-facing corner. I can't say I recall a specific landmark, but it looked like a very easy place to head left. And it was in fact quite easy--which was good because I didn't find much pro early on the traverse except two old pitons. (It was so easy that I didn't mind the sparse pro even though it was only my third lead.) So if you find the old pitons and not much else with very easy climbing, you're in the right place.

Or you can traverse higher up just before the corner starts arching substantially left. The upper traverse is slightly harder but with more gear than the lower one.

Thanks for the beta guys.

It also seemed different each time I did. I think, though, I've been on or above the higher traverse Daniel is describing, slightly harder than 5.3, but there's a horizontal seam/small horizontal crack running all the way across into which I can stuff tiny cams and nuts.

Daniel, it sounds like I may have actually moved out into the traverse at the "correct" lower traverse you are describing/described by williams, because after saying to myself "Is this about 40' feet?" asking my second if he thought I was about 40 feet up (to which he replied: I dunno really), I started out left on a good ledge for my feet with not much in the way of hands, and found no gear at all, and, knowing the third member of my party was out for his first day of real rock, I didn't want to leave him on a big unprotected traverse, so I headed up to where I knew there was gear.

I'll go out there a little farther next time, and see what I can find. I'll also look for irisharehere 's left-pointing flake, which may be precisely where I did traverse one time, to below a left arching, left facing very shallow corner with a piton stuck into it. I followed that corner up and left, very 5.6 ish, to join the seam/small horizontal crack above about half way out the traverse.

I'll prolly be out in a week or two and give it a try before my bother comes to visit in April. I'm hoping to take him on it if he's comfortable enough on his second day at the gunks, but I'd like to take him on non-5.5 version of it.

I just love taking new climbers through that third pitch, even though I've kind of stiffed them a bit on the grade on the second because of my inept route-finding .

I'd also like to take my brother on it this season. We did Northern Pillar under very wet conditions for his first (and so far only) real climb last summer, so I'd think he could handle Beginner's Delight if it were dry. But I'm concerned about the potential for a fairly substantial pendulum off an old piton on the regular traverse, and the slightly more difficult climbing on the upper traverse. So maybe we'll wind up on Minty instead. But that last pitch of BD is sooooo much fun, it's hard to resist.

So bring a third climber (always a good idea when you're breaking in a newbie, to make sure they don't have any problems leaving the belay), and they can provide a back belay* on the traverse.

* Don't have your brother clip the trailing rope to a gear loop!

Back belay? As in belay the second from both sides?

Hey, I never thought of that, even though both times I brought newbies on it, I did have a third. I can't imagine not having a third in those situations.

But also, here's a picture of some form of the BD traverse I ran into on City Climbers:

http://www.climbnyc.com/photos/climbnyc/gunks/toddbd.htm

I've never traversed as low as the dude in the picture: does he have the two old pitons clipped I wonder?

I think a few/5/10 feet above where his gear is is where I come across, just below the big pepply ledge with the root on it.

-d

Putting an inexperienced climber in the middle of a threesome (any sexual innuendo here is purely the product of your own warped minds, by the way) has a number of advantages. There's the above-mentioned back belay which would help keep the second from penduluming from a fall on a traverse. The second doesn't have to worry about hanging out and cleaning gear (though he/she does have to unclip the lead rope and reclip the trailing rope). In some cases, the third can keep an eye on the second even when the leader climbs out of sight. And if the second has to be lowered back down to a belay in the middle of the cliff, there's still an anchor to clip into and someone to watch her/him do so.

As for the photo, I think Todd would be substantially past the two pitons which as I recall are on the earlier portion of the traverse. I think you get gear again later on. But it's been a while since I've climbed it, so maybe someone who has done it more recently (or with a better memory) can speak with more authority.