Shout Box

Who's Online
1 registered (Rickster), 10 Guests and 1 Spider online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
Topic Options
#12979 - 09/13/04 06:22 PM CCK routefinding
Steven Cherry Offline

veteran

Registered: 12/23/99
Posts: 1300
Loc: New York, N.Y.
Okay, I'm going to admit defeat on one of the great routefinding challenges of the Gunks. This isn't easy for someone who spent 20 minutes looking for the top pitch of Moonlight as a 5.6 leader, who made three separate expeditions to find Psychedelic over the course of two years, who has actually done the last pitches of Double Chimney, Asphodel, Casablanca, and V-3.....

Anyway, I ended up doing the CCK direct start off the GT ledge, even though we were doing the regular route. Even though it was my 6th trip though that damned notch in my climbing career. Even though it gets scarier each time.

This time I made a concerted effort to find the regular start. I didn't find any 5.6 climbing, and I didn't find any well-protected, or even adequately-protected climbing.

So I give up. Where the heck does it go?

Top
#12980 - 09/13/04 09:30 PM Re: CCK routefinding [Re: Steven Cherry]
Daniel Offline
veteran

Registered: 05/23/01
Posts: 1515
Even after following the regular start on p2 of CCK, I still managed to pump myself out going the wrong way when I tried leading it two years later. Now I've done that pitch four times. So here goes . . . .

P1 of CCK ends at a tree on the GT ledge. About 20 feet right, there is another tree. The start is a shallow left-facing corner in front of the tree. Go up about 15 feet to a big horizontal, and traverse right to a nose. It's tempting to go up left here, but it's pretty blank. Instead, continue to the right side of the nose, where there is a cramped, maybe four foot high alcove. Then go straight up. If you're tall (above 6 feet), you can get a good horizontal. If you're not, you'll have to make a committing move by smearing up with mediocre handholds. It's not well protected, a 5.7 move with gear at your feet and a possible busted ankle if you blow it (that's where I backed off the first time I tried leading it). Up to a stance, then step left across the void (that blank area that looked tempting from below), then up a left-facing corner, then traverse (5.6-5.7) left under a small overhang past a piton and diagonal up left to the rat's nest of slings in Updraft corner.

At least that's my story. Someone can correct me if I'm mistaken!


Top
#12981 - 09/14/04 11:41 PM Re: CCK routefinding [Re: Daniel]
RangerRob Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/06/00
Posts: 3764
Loc: Ulster County, NY
I have always assumed that the start of P2 for both CCK and the direct start in the same place. For me, they split when one starts to traverse into the Updraft corner for the CCK belay. Direct goes straight up to the flake from there. I have always thought the smallish left facing corner about twenty feet right on the GT was Diana. For me, that 5.7ish move off the GT is always the mental crux of the route..the rest is protected marevlously!

RR

Free Tico!

Top
#12982 - 09/15/04 01:08 AM Re: CCK routefinding [Re: RangerRob]
Mike Rawdon Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/29/99
Posts: 4275
Loc: Poughkeepsie
Quote:

I have always assumed that the start of P2 for both CCK and the direct start in the same place.




See the black Dick. Straight up off the ledge is Variation 1 ("5.7 or 5.8 R"). Clearly not the same as the regular pitch start. But after not finding the original line years ago, I've always done it this way.

I have to admit I've become less fond of this start since that guy almost died falling off it last year. Just when I'd given up on the original line of the pitch, maybe it's time to start looking for it again.

Top
#12983 - 09/15/04 01:52 AM Re: CCK routefinding [Re: Mike Rawdon]
Steven Cherry Offline

veteran

Registered: 12/23/99
Posts: 1300
Loc: New York, N.Y.
Quote:

I have to admit I've become less fond of this start since that guy almost died falling off it last year. Just when I'd given up on the original line of the pitch, maybe it's time to start looking for it again.




That was exactly my thinking (plus finding it scary enough the first five times....)

Top
#12984 - 09/15/04 02:46 AM Re: CCK routefinding [Re: Steven Cherry]
climbon Offline
newbie

Registered: 08/13/02
Posts: 42
Loc: NYC
My understanding of the second pitch start is: the original line climbs the corner right of the 5.7/8 mantel move, and avoids the move but has no protection. I've seen people doing it this way but never paid close attention. The move either straight up or starting a bit left to get gear in the horizontal is a bit scary and you would be close to decking if you came off as you finished but the gear is bomber.

I too did CCK on Sunday and found that climbing up left and placing the protection ,stepping down moving right directly underneath the 7/8 move and then climbing up to be a bit easier. The protection is the same but it avoids the akward traverse right. Still a bit scary but I don't think there is a better way.

The accident I believe happened on the original start ,no gear was in and a factor 2 fall ensued that whipped the belayer around the tree and caused her to drop the rope. A nearby climber grabbed the rope and saved the guys life. I got all this from a guide that was involved in the rescue.



Top
#12985 - 09/15/04 10:53 AM Re: CCK routefinding [Re: climbon]
Steven Cherry Offline

veteran

Registered: 12/23/99
Posts: 1300
Loc: New York, N.Y.
Quote:

I too did CCK on Sunday and found that climbing up left and placing the protection ,stepping down moving right directly underneath the 7/8 move and then climbing up to be a bit easier. The protection is the same but it avoids the akward traverse right. Still a bit scary but I don't think there is a better way.




That's the way I've been doing it. I did the traverse the first time, and this is easier and you end up in the same place. Your second may choose to do the traverse though (mine did) because they're higher up after the gear is cleaned.

Quote:

The accident I believe happened on the original start ,no gear was in and a factor 2 fall ensued that whipped the belayer around the tree and caused her to drop the rope. A nearby climber grabbed the rope and saved the guys life. I got all this from a guide that was involved in the rescue.




Right. The big advantage of having gear in, any gear, is that the belayer is pulled forward toward the wall, instead of back, off the ledge.

Top
#12986 - 09/15/04 11:59 AM Re: CCK routefinding [Re: Steven Cherry]
Dana Offline
addict

Registered: 07/13/00
Posts: 619
For what it's worth, the photo in 1972 guide indicates that the original second pitch of CCK starts 10-15 feet right of where the Direct starts. The description of the start is very vague: "Step right and up face to overhang. " Diana starts, according to the guide, 55 feet right of the Updraft corner.

Top
#12987 - 09/20/04 01:35 AM Re: CCK routefinding [Re: Steven Cherry]
pedestrian Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/05/02
Posts: 2244
Loc: a heavily fortified bunker!
Quote:

This time I made a concerted effort to find the regular start. I didn't find any 5.6 climbing, and I didn't find any well-protected, or even adequately-protected climbing.




Why did you expect to find 5.6 climbing when the book [Swain] says 5.7?

Anyhow, I onsighted all 3 pitches today and I found the second pitch to be about what Daniel describes. Up the vertical crack (well protected) to its top, step right just around the nose, get gear in the horizontal, pull the roof. For me, the roof went without much difficulty, but I am 6'3". I pull all the way through the roof move and end up with my feet above gear, but you wouldn't deck at this point. Then I've got another piece of gear from this stance. After that, I think it was maybe one more move straight up followed by a well protected rising traverse to the left.

I am kind of confused by all this talk of a traverse to the right and getting gear out left. I didn't do anything like that--no traverse to the right that was worth speaking of. I think I almost decided to go up a thinner face just to the right of the corner, but my second thought the crack looked like a good option and I decided she was right.

FWIW, the Swain guidebook seems to have a good description of the pitch.

Top
#12988 - 09/20/04 07:38 PM Re: CCK routefinding [Re: pedestrian]
MurphysLaw Offline
gumby

Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 2308
Loc: Hudson Valley, NY
There are 3 start variations for the upper pitch(es) of CCK.

1 - The Original (as outlined by Daniel and successfully found by Ped) 5.7 PG? - approx 20 feet rt of the belay tree
(nope - I couldn't find it either and we had Swain with us .)

2 - The Variation - as referenced by Steven and Mike, you climb straight up thru the notch, no gear, and mantle onto a ledge. This starts about 6-8 feet right of the rap tree.
5.7-5.8 R according to the book of Black Dick
(My vote is 5.7R - it's very similar climbing IMO to the crux of Strictly, only w/ no gear.)

3 - The New Variation (for lack of a better official name) - starts directly behind the rap tree. Straight up, then hand traverse/crab-crawl right on the horizontal (good gear) awkwardly to the same notch, then up to the ledge. (Continue on CCK or CCK Direct from here as desired.)
I'd call it 5.8 PG - I don't know if you'd deck or not if you blew the mantle (you'd pendulum for sure), but at least you wouldn't Factor 2 onto your belayer.


I can't comment on the original start, but of options 2 & 3, I found the actual climbing going straight up thru the notch much more straightforward and less awkward than the last option.


Does the original start end up with you on the same ledge (and gear - finally! ) as the other 2 options, or do they "rejoin the regular route" a bit higher?
_________________________
"Flailing?" "Flail on!"

Top
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >


Moderator:  Mike Rawdon, Steven Cherry 
Sponsored