Shout Box

Who's Online
0 registered (), 9 Guests and 4 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 >
Topic Options
#13359 - 10/25/04 01:48 AM xc? xt? skate? backcountry?
Spiderman Offline
Site Supporter

Registered: 12/23/01
Posts: 178
Loc: Long Island N.Y.
I would like to do some laps in my neighborhood after a fresh snow. Or on the trails by my house. I heard the trails at the preserve are groomed after a snow. What skis would do all this? And what is the difference between xc, xt, skate, & backcountry? Please educate me. I am confused.
Thanks
_________________________
I can't climb enough!
But I am climbing more!!

Top
#13360 - 10/25/04 01:45 PM Re: xc? xt? skate? backcountry? [Re: Spiderman]
groundhog Offline
member

Registered: 04/19/01
Posts: 137
Loc: southern NJ
Briefly, light XC skiis typically have a high camber without metal edges; probably the longest of the 3 classes you mentioned. Good for use at the Preserve trails, which normally have set tracks. Skate skiis are significantly shorter & narrower, designed for use in a track prepared specifically for skating (not that you can't use traiditonal XC skiis in a skate mode). I am not aware of any trails on the Preserve that are rolled for skating. BC skiis will have less camber than XC and have full metal edges; somewhat wider and shorter than XC as well. Better control on the downhill, but noticeably slower on the flats. Probably overkill for typical Preserve trails. Ya got me on XT.


Top
#13361 - 10/25/04 11:39 PM Re: xc? xt? skate? backcountry? [Re: Spiderman]
Spiderman Offline
Site Supporter

Registered: 12/23/01
Posts: 178
Loc: Long Island N.Y.
The last post sad AT. What is AT? I like that I can incorporate ice climbing boots in to it. That is a great reason to get into ice. My wife will never suspect this.
_________________________
I can't climb enough!
But I am climbing more!!

Top
#13362 - 10/26/04 12:22 AM Re: xc? xt? skate? backcountry? [Re: Spiderman]
zachres Offline
addict

Registered: 04/03/03
Posts: 495
Loc: In the midst of a "psychotic b...
"AT" stands for Alpine Touring.

The idea is to have an alpine, ski boot, with a climbing sole (and typically a lever that releases the stiffness in the ankle-cuff for walking), and a binding that can have a free heel for climbing or aproaching. Using a climbing skin on the bottom of the ski (a synthetic velvet with strong grip in one direction and none in the other) allows you to use the skis to climb uphill, or simply to grip for flat touring. This setup is usually used to access backcountry/big mountain terrain.... in the wilderness as opposed to a resort. When an AT skier reaches the top of a mountain, he removes his climbing skins, locks down his heel, and skis in normal alpine fashion.

FYI - the magazine that I work for covers all things backcountry;
www.earnyourturns.com
_________________________
Give me liberty, or give me death!

Top
#13363 - 10/26/04 04:21 PM Re: xc? xt? skate? backcountry? [Re: Spiderman]
andrew Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/15/99
Posts: 1816
Loc: Denver, CO
Quote:

The last post sad AT. What is AT? I like that I can incorporate ice climbing boots in to it. That is a great reason to get into ice. My wife will never suspect this.





skiing in ice climbing boots sucks! avoid it at all costs.

for what its worth, i ski my AT gear at resorts as well as in the backcountry. good AT gear can get you down pretty much anything.
_________________________
This isn't an office. It's Hell with fluorescent lighting.

Top
#13364 - 10/26/04 11:56 PM Re: xc? xt? skate? backcountry? [Re: Spiderman]
Spiderman Offline
Site Supporter

Registered: 12/23/01
Posts: 178
Loc: Long Island N.Y.
Is this a good ski for some laps in my neighborhood after a fresh snow. On the trails by my house. Or the under carriage road after a snow. I’m aprox 163lbs and don’t plan on going up and 5’11” tall.

Rossignol Backcountry 61 Skis with Bindings

Rossignol's BC 61-a steel-edged, waxless ski designed for 50% in-track and 50% out-of-track. Includes BC automatic step-in bindings with double-steering ridges. Rossitop cap protects ski and improves rebound. Wood air core construction is strong and durable. Positrack system promotes kick and delivers superb glide. Stone-ground finish. Sidecut dimensions 61/51/57 mm (based on 175 cm). 4 lb. pr.

$149.75 they come in 160, 175, 190
_________________________
I can't climb enough!
But I am climbing more!!

Top
#13365 - 10/27/04 01:02 PM Re: xc? xt? skate? backcountry? [Re: Spiderman]
groundhog Offline
member

Registered: 04/19/01
Posts: 137
Loc: southern NJ
Looks like a decent start, & should do well for the intended use... just be careful where this will lead to!

Top
#13366 - 10/27/04 03:27 PM Re: xc? xt? skate? backcountry? [Re: Spiderman]
zachres Offline
addict

Registered: 04/03/03
Posts: 495
Loc: In the midst of a "psychotic b...
Definitely not a downhill ski... just so you know... I can't quite decipher what your intended use is, but this set-up is strictly for touring on flat, rolling, or very mild downhill.
_________________________
Give me liberty, or give me death!

Top
#13367 - 10/27/04 09:42 PM Re: xc? xt? skate? backcountry? [Re: zachres]
Spiderman Offline
Site Supporter

Registered: 12/23/01
Posts: 178
Loc: Long Island N.Y.
Instead of running I would like to do some laps around the neighborhood streets(after snow). Maybe a trip to the post office and back. There are hiking trials in my area. I would like to ski through them and cover a couple of miles. Cross country/back country skiing would be a great winter exercise. Skiing through the under carriage road at the traps would be a joy.(flat road) I have been down hill skiing for 17 years. I think I understand the large differences between down hill and cross country. Although I don’t think that I am clear between XC and back country. Your definition of a mild hill may be the largest hill on long island. Understanding that these skis are not for down hill do you believe that some one with skiing experience could ski down a green circle(easy) trail with ease. I am not looking to bring these skis to a resort mountain to down hill ski. My neighborhood is hilly Anything I go down I will need to ski back up. There are few perfectly flat areas. If these skis will not be good for this what would.

P.S Thanks everyone for taking the time to answer my questions
_________________________
I can't climb enough!
But I am climbing more!!

Top
#13368 - 10/27/04 10:35 PM Re: xc? xt? skate? backcountry? [Re: Spiderman]
andrew Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/15/99
Posts: 1816
Loc: Denver, CO
backcountry skiing generally refers to folks on telemark or AT gear skinning up and then making turns back down. the skis are fat and designed for serious downhill, but the setup is heavy so it sucks for flat trails. i don't know anything about cross country skis, but they are probably what you want.
_________________________
This isn't an office. It's Hell with fluorescent lighting.

Top
#13369 - 10/27/04 10:49 PM Re: xc? xt? skate? backcountry? [Re: Spiderman]
zachres Offline
addict

Registered: 04/03/03
Posts: 495
Loc: In the midst of a "psychotic b...
Backcountry skiing is basically going into the wilderness/out of ski resort boundries, climbing a mountain, and skiing it. The level of difficulty or danger involved is entirely up to you. Cross-Country skiing is essentially an endurance sport... typically done on flat or rolling terrain, with no steep ups or downs.

Cross-country and Backcountry begin to kind of cross paths at or near the ski that you're looking at... Most people would call it a touring ski; good for long trips with a big pack, or for moderate up and downs... kind of like what you want to do......... although, there is a small group of curmudgeony old doods that swear this type of set-up is the superior method of down-hill as well. Of course, their idea of downhill and mine are vastly different.

I work at a backcountry skiing and snowboarding magazine, so I do know a little bit.... however, I'm a snowboarder, so that's where most of my expertise lies. I would reccomend posing this question on our forum at www.earnyourturns.com you'll definitely get some answers.

Zach

_________________________
Give me liberty, or give me death!

Top
#13370 - 10/28/04 04:37 PM Re: xc? xt? skate? backcountry? [Re: zachres]
phlan Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/11/00
Posts: 2778
Loc: Gardiner, NY
reading between the lines, what I think you want are called regular old "beater" skis... the kind you don't have to worry about scratching up or maintaining...

everyone should have a pair like that, even if you have performance setups of one kind or another. if you only have or want to get one pair, this is the kind to have (no muss, no fuss.)

shop for a used pair, waxless and get something that seems sturdy and won't break... you don't have to be too picky for the type of skiing you want to do.

have fun!
_________________________
Support Your Local Farmer!

Top
#13371 - 10/28/04 10:01 PM Re: xc? xt? skate? backcountry? [Re: zachres]
Spiderman Offline
Site Supporter

Registered: 12/23/01
Posts: 178
Loc: Long Island N.Y.
What do you think is a good length ski for me.

5'11" 163lbs
_________________________
I can't climb enough!
But I am climbing more!!

Top
#13372 - 11/11/04 01:35 AM Re: xc? xt? skate? backcountry? [Re: Spiderman]
pedestrian Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/05/02
Posts: 2244
Loc: a heavily fortified bunker!
If you're doing hills steep enough to require telemark turns, you want a metal edge ski. If not, you will probably have more fun with a normal x-c ski, since they're lighter weight and probably cheaper. Most of the metal-edged "backcountry" skis that are being sold have similar width and camber to x-c skis.

I am a fan of wide-track x-c skis. They are more stable and still lightweight. Better for people like me who suck on x-c equipment, which is most people. They aren't built for x-c racing, for sure, but you can still ski for miles x-c without tiring yourself out.

you can always just rent a pair of normal or wide-track x-c skis up at rock & snow to try them out for a day, say on some of the downhills around the mountain house. some of those are even groomed. and you should easily be able to snowplow down old minnewaska carriage road towards rhodo bridge, without requiring a metal-edged ski, for example.


Edited by pedestrian (11/11/04 02:08 AM)

Top
#13373 - 11/29/04 02:55 PM Re: xc? xt? skate? backcountry? [Re: andrew]
Smike Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/01/01
Posts: 3143
Loc: in your backyard
Does anyone know what the feasibility of using you ice boots (leather) for cross country ski touring (no down hill) I know Ice boots suck for alpine.

Or basically what is the ideal Cross country ski shoe? Soft, hard etc...

Thanks

Top
#13374 - 11/29/04 06:54 PM Re: xc? xt? skate? backcountry? [Re: Smike]
groundhog Offline
member

Registered: 04/19/01
Posts: 137
Loc: southern NJ
Quote:

Does anyone know what the feasibility of using you ice boots (leather) for cross country ski touring (no down hill) I know Ice boots suck for alpine...




Ice boots, even leather, will tend to be too stiff for cross country touring, which generally requires a fairly flexible toe area (notice the bellows in plastic tele boots). You would probalby need more of an AT style binding, which IMO would be overkill for general cc touring. Of course, if you were looking to ski into an ice climb that would be the way to go.

Top
#13375 - 11/30/04 03:07 PM Re: xc? xt? skate? backcountry? [Re: groundhog]
Smike Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/01/01
Posts: 3143
Loc: in your backyard
Thanks, it would be as guessed I'm sure for long approaches to far away ice. (well at least far from mad crowds) Just trying to figure what the best set up would be to avoid having to bring 2 pairs of boots.

Top
#13376 - 11/30/04 05:22 PM Re: xc? xt? skate? backcountry? [Re: Smike]
groundhog Offline
member

Registered: 04/19/01
Posts: 137
Loc: southern NJ
Quote:

... long approaches to far away ice.... Just trying to figure what the best set up would be to avoid having to bring 2 pairs of boots.




In an attempt to address just this issue, I picked up a pair of Lowa Struktura boots this year. They fit like a glove, no heel lift at all, nice buckle closure. They require an AT style binding (fritschi, silvretta), but feel like they should make a decent ice boot. Can't wait to try 'em out!

Top
#13377 - 11/30/04 08:07 PM Re: xc? xt? skate? backcountry? [Re: Smike]
pedestrian Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/05/02
Posts: 2244
Loc: a heavily fortified bunker!
as has been noted elsewhere, mountaineering boots are not ideal for either downhill or XC skiing. but if you just want to mount some cheap bindings on beater skis and use mountaineering boots with 'em, last years Silvrettas are lookin' good - they have a simple wire toe piece that looks like a crampon toe piece. I would not recommend this setup for serious downhills where you might need alpine-style binding release, though.

Top
#13378 - 11/30/04 08:16 PM Re: xc? xt? skate? backcountry? [Re: pedestrian]
Mike Rawdon Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/29/99
Posts: 4276
Loc: Poughkeepsie
Quote:

as has been noted elsewhere, mountaineering boots are not ideal for either downhill or XC skiing. but if you just want to mount some cheap bindings on beater skis and use mountaineering boots with 'em, last years Silvrettas are lookin' good - they have a simple wire toe piece that looks like a crampon toe piece. I would not recommend this setup for serious downhills where you might need alpine-style binding release, though.




If anyone is thinking of trying such a setup, I have a pair of skis you can have for free. They are all white. I think they are US Army 10th Mtn Division surplus. I used them for a year of ski area tele skiing then moved on to a more lively downhill ski. So they have had 3 pin bindings mounted on them. The bases are in good condition. They are alpine width & length (180 I think), alpine flex i.e. much less cambered than a XC touring ski. They are not "shaped" like the current parabolic skis so you have to know how to turn, as opposed to merely laying the ski at an angle on the snow (yea, I'm a cynicaloldfart)

Top
#13379 - 12/01/04 02:04 AM Re: xc? xt? skate? backcountry? [Re: Spiderman]
Spiderman Offline
Site Supporter

Registered: 12/23/01
Posts: 178
Loc: Long Island N.Y.
For what it is worth (not a lot) I am getting atomic cascades BC skis and alpina 1550 bc boots
_________________________
I can't climb enough!
But I am climbing more!!

Top
#13380 - 12/03/04 05:58 PM carrying your boots [Re: Spiderman]
phlan Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/11/00
Posts: 2778
Loc: Gardiner, NY
smike, in answer to your ? I have carried my climbing boots in my pack many times, you can go so much faster with the lightweight xc gear you won't mind the extra weight in your pack one bit...
_________________________
Support Your Local Farmer!

Top
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 >


Moderator:  webmaster 
Sponsored