have to add some brew to the rating stew at peter's kill...oops and circuit breaker feel a wee soft for mid-range 10, like a letter-grade or two soft...both seem a little easier than most of the entry-level 10s on the preserve, though they're both terrific leads with great gear for anyone wishing to break into the grade...

i had a lot more trouble figuring out motorcycle diaries, which feels about right at 10a, though the exit move out of that low crux is deceptive and gripping...

and what about that PG rating on pencil & johnny's arete?...maybe i'm picking, and bouldery starts are something of a tradition here, but the crux is off the ground and unprotected, your first piece is marginal, so you're 15 feet up before a solid placement...then there's that move right off-line for gear into floops (which looked awkward and felt unsporting to get to, off a lousy little tcu way back left around the arete), and a good 15-20 feet to the next big horizontal through easier, but very steep climbing...if the gear-rating by definition reflects the crux move, and the rest of route is easier but the gear is sketchy in spots, how about a cautionary PG13-R for those sections of the route, like proctor-silex or welcome to the gunks?...

or am i just wussing?...

Also. Is Daddy-Long-Legs really 5.8, or is it an accurately-graded one-move 5.9?

GRRRRR!
You had to bring up the PG-R rating on Welcome to the Gunks....
I did that and Turdland in the same day and I must say WTTG felt like a comfortable PG and Turdland made me crap my pants (it is given a PG). I've never climbed at Pkill but I must say... seems like wherever I climb I have my own grading system thats skewed from what anyone else has to say about it. Guess thats all part of the fun.......

Yorrick has it right, the ratings on the Opps wall are generally soft-as are many of the climbs at the P-Kill. Actually the ratings there are just not accurate, as some of the 5.10s should have letter grades such as Magic Mylil's (10c), Crack-a-lack (10c) harder than they appear. There has not been enough climbing at the P-Kill to have established more of a consensus. (Unlike the Trapps/Nears/SkyTop) Of course there will always be a difference of opinion since everyone's skills vary, as do heights! With each new generation of climbers there will be an evening out of grade.There may be a new guide book in the works for the PetersKill and comments from this web site are being considered in adjusting the ratings as are disscusions with climbers at the 'Kill'. I read about a phenomenon recently called 'Grade Wander' where an isolated cliimbing area will develop it's own grades when not climbed/rated by visiting climbers. Remember most of these routes were put up recently by only a hand full of local,folks. Nothing against those involved, Hats off to them, but modern climbers have a different view of grades vs. the older 'hardmen' who rated everything 5.6 even if it really was a hard 5.9 (lack of a grading system!?). As the area becomes more popular, and a wider variety of climbers go there, things should reach a consensus.
-MF

oops? soft? WTF?

oops? soft? WTF?

I believe that caver is saying that the ratings are perhaps a little less than the the climbs deserve (or to put it another way, the climbs are harder than their ratings). Or would you disagree with that? My own experience with Peter's Kill is that they are all over the place - but what do I know?

ok. sorry.
i understood what he meant by commenting that the grades were soft. i disagree. oops was hard as hell, i still havent gotten it on TR.
i do agree that P'Kill rating are all over the place.

Just to provide a quick altenate opinion. Oops i think is hardest at the bottom (sequency?) and even there it is much easier if you are tall. It was actually my first 10 lead at the gunks i liked it so much.

Id agree that the grades at p'kill are all over the place, and perhaps a bit soft.

Though due to p'kill's proximity to the gunks proper i find it hard to make and accurate judgement... its a bit like calling Newark a small town.