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#13555 - 11/09/04 11:39 PM *Nasty* Fixed Anchor on Tequila Mockingbird / Dry Martini
Julie Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 01/16/00
Posts: 2090
Loc: SoCal
There is an incredibly manky fixed anchor midway to the GT on Tequila Mockingbird (I'm a little confused on exactly what pitch that corresponds to, but it's about halfway up the cliff).

It is comprised of two pitons (one of which appears solid, both are a bit rusty) equalized by a way-old 1" and a newer bit of Spectra. Both pitons bend under body weight. Also tied in is a mediocre small fixed nut, girth-hitched to the way-old 1" webbing only.

The whole thing makes really great squeaking noises, the pitons bend under body weight, and the rap from that point goes over a pretty sizeable roof (so there's a good bounce of force added).

To the "concerned locals" or whoever might look over these things: please, please chop it or bolt it.

One could make a decent argument for a pair of bolts up there. The rock above is fairly loose, and a pair of bolts would be consistent with other first-pitch bolts in the Trapps. Further, it might help to popularize these two really-fun climbs, since the anchoring situation is a rope-drag-mess overall.

Alternately, there are gear anchors, and one can either climb up to the GT, the clifftop, or the rap tree above Welcome to the Gunks.

In any case, that fixed mank is the worst I've seen in the Gunks. Please, please, someone, pay it some attention.

Thank you.

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#13556 - 11/10/04 01:38 PM Re: *Nasty* Fixed Anchor on Tequila Mockingbird / Dry Martini [Re: Julie]
irisharehere Offline
Site Supporter

Registered: 12/06/01
Posts: 1658
Loc: Danbury CT
If there's opportunities for decent gear placement nearby, no need for bolts at all, IMHO. Just chop the mank......

Irish
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#13557 - 11/10/04 01:45 PM Re: *Nasty* Fixed Anchor on Tequila Mockingbird / Dry Martini [Re: Julie]
empicard Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/29/01
Posts: 2957
Loc: LI, NY
why would one stop there if you can continue up to the GT anyway?

i agree with the alien.
chop the mank.


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#13558 - 11/10/04 03:33 PM Re: *Nasty* Fixed Anchor on Tequila Mockingbird / Dry Martini [Re: Julie]
talus Offline
veteran

Registered: 08/23/04
Posts: 1259
then fix it yourself instead of crying about it. better yet instead of posting about tell Hank the ranger sheesh
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#13559 - 11/10/04 05:05 PM Re: *Nasty* Fixed Anchor on Tequila Mockingbird / Dry Martini [Re: talus]
Julie Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 01/16/00
Posts: 2090
Loc: SoCal
I would, but it's a little hard to do from San Diego, and I don't consider myself a "power that be" of the Trapps.

Plus, I have zero experience in removing pitons, so that's likely best left to someone with experience. The best thing seemed to be posting it, where a number of people, including Hank, can consider the issue. I do apologize if you were annoyed by my "crying" about it.

Though there are alternatives, I think a pair of bolts would serve well above what the guidebook describes as P2 of these routes. (Have you guys climbed these routes, and seen the rock above?) Arguments about gear availability can be made about almost every pair of bolts in the Gunks, after all.

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#13560 - 11/10/04 05:10 PM Re: *Nasty* Fixed Anchor on Tequila Mockingbird / Dry Martini [Re: Julie]
irisharehere Offline
Site Supporter

Registered: 12/06/01
Posts: 1658
Loc: Danbury CT
Well, you did say there were gear opportunities!!!!

I haven't seen what the rock there is like, but I think it would be out of line with the standards at the Gunks to install new bolts just because the gear placements might be marginal. No need to bolt just 'cause its R or X quality stuff.

All the above is just my take on it though. Feel free to disagree!

Irish
_________________________
I didn't spend nine years in Evil Graduate School to be called "Mr Irish", thank you!

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#13561 - 11/10/04 05:30 PM Re: information on anchors [Re: talus]
crackers Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 03/21/01
Posts: 3424
Loc: pdx
I think its perfectly appropriate to post about anchor problems here. A lot of people read this who don't post, and some of them, like Tico, have been known to replace or remove anchors.

I know that I've ripped some garbage off as a public service after reading posts here, and I am sure that I'm not the only one...

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#13562 - 11/10/04 05:37 PM Re: information on anchors [Re: crackers]
empicard Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/29/01
Posts: 2957
Loc: LI, NY
long live tico!
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tOOthless

Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.

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#13563 - 11/10/04 08:16 PM Re: *Nasty* Fixed Anchor on Tequila Mockingbird / Dry Martini [Re: irisharehere]
Julie Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 01/16/00
Posts: 2090
Loc: SoCal
Well, you did say there were gear opportunities!!!!

Really, you'd have to climb TM to see what I mean (and you should, it's wild and highly understarred). It wanders a bit, and pulls in/out of roofs enough that 70 feet are, and pretty much need to be, separated into 2 pitches (Dry Martini wanders even more). Then, directly above P2 there is no gear - once you either pull a roof or the bulge with the ring-bolt, you have to traverse right ~15 feet to the mank in question. A pair of bolts right above P2, where there is no gear, would do the route some well-deserved justice - both by providing a real anchor and by reducing a rope-drag mess considerably. Or you can spend 3 (or 4) pitches just to get to the GT on loose 5.2 ... not very attractive.

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#13564 - 11/10/04 09:13 PM Re: *Nasty* Fixed Anchor on Tequila Mockingbird / Dry Martini [Re: irisharehere]
MarcC Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/10/00
Posts: 3532
Quote:

I haven't seen what the rock there is like, but I think it would be out of line with the standards at the Gunks to install new bolts just because the gear placements might be marginal. No need to bolt just 'cause its R or X quality stuff.




It's not so much being R/X. It's just that after the difficulties the routes rapidly degenerate into disagreeable, lichenated, vegetated, chossy, unpleasant 5.easy. Yes, a bolted anchor there would be pure convenience, but it's hardly like it's without precedent: Never Never Land, Absurdland, Triangle, V-3, Farewell to Arms all have upper pitches that aren't worth doing and thus have permanent anchors.
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#13565 - 11/10/04 09:29 PM Re: *Nasty* Fixed Anchor on Tequila Mockingbird / Dry Martini [Re: Julie]
talus Offline
veteran

Registered: 08/23/04
Posts: 1259
really when i did these routes in 1 pitch to the gt ledge i had no problem finding gear. there is no need for bolts imo. but if you must cry about bolts this is not the place for it. Ok so what you need to do is send a letter to Hank saying TM needs bolts and there is a committee that will review your request for bolts. I believe the first priority to install bolts in the gunks is safety.







the Trapps suck
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#13566 - 11/10/04 10:14 PM Re: *Nasty* Fixed Anchor on Tequila Mockingbird / Dry Martini [Re: Julie]
pedestrian Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/05/02
Posts: 2244
Loc: a heavily fortified bunker!
Quote:

Then, directly above P2 there is no gear - once you either pull a roof or the bulge with the ring-bolt, you have to traverse right ~15 feet to the mank in question




Not true. I did this route a month or two ago. The final bulge on P2 might feel a little airy to some, (blue camalot at your feet before you make the move) but it is much easier than the crux. And there is good gear (something like a #0.4 camalot, if I remember correctly) just above the bulge move and just before you start the traverse to which you are referring. You may have to climb an unanticipated extra move straight up on easy rock to get the gear, but it is there, and it's no higher than the mank. As for the mank itself, you can sink 3 good cams in the horizontal 3 feet to the left of the mank.

So it seems only the first part of the route is worth doing. If you prefer a fixed anchor to bail from there (I did, and there was no backup nut at the time!) replacing the pins would have less environmental impact than adding bolts.

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#13567 - 11/10/04 11:30 PM Re: *Nasty* Fixed Anchor on Tequila Mockingbird / Dry Martini [Re: pedestrian]
Julie Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 01/16/00
Posts: 2090
Loc: SoCal
You're right on that ... my memory got a bit fuzzy. Actually, I think you're talking about the top of Dry Martini; the top of Tequila Mockingbird (a wild step left over a roof, a few feet right of that bulge/bolt) also has some gear. I was remembering looking *above* that (like where a common anchor would go, above the level of the mank) and not seeing much ....

But my point really is, the fixed mank is 15-20 feet directly right of the top of both routes' pitches, which makes things a PITA for such a short climb (especially if you've already done a middle belay). A fixed anchor directly above those P2s, rather than just replacing the current anchor, would improve things significantly.

Just sayin'

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#13568 - 11/10/04 11:45 PM Re: *Nasty* Fixed Anchor on Tequila Mockingbird / Dry Martini [Re: Julie]
pedestrian Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/05/02
Posts: 2244
Loc: a heavily fortified bunker!
I'm talking about TM. I can't comment on Dry Martini, I haven't done that one. Actually I'm probably not going back up there any time soon, with the anchor situation being what it is. Out of those two routes, Tequila Mockingbird seems to be more worth doing for sure. Do Dry Martini and it looks like you'll have less interesting moves and a bigger hairier traverse to get to the fixed anchor.

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#13569 - 11/11/04 11:55 AM Re: *Nasty* Fixed Anchor on Tequila Mockingbird / Dry Martini [Re: pedestrian]
pitfall Offline
old hand

Registered: 11/01/00
Posts: 1165
Loc: Albany
"Or you can spend 3 (or 4) pitches just to get to the GT on loose 5.2 ... not very attractive."

Huh? Did the trapps grow or something?
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#13570 - 11/11/04 12:55 PM Re: *Nasty* Fixed Anchor on Tequila Mockingbird / Dry Martini [Re: pitfall]
Dad4Trad Offline
member

Registered: 10/24/04
Posts: 144
Loc: New Paltz
Quote:

"Or you can spend 3 (or 4) pitches just to get to the GT on loose 5.2 ... not very attractive."

Huh? Did the trapps grow or something?





I think she meant that the traverses make the climb longer, not higher..

D4T


Edited by Dad4Trad (11/11/04 12:56 PM)

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#13571 - 11/11/04 07:59 PM Re: *Nasty* Fixed Anchor on Tequila Mockingbird / Dry Martini [Re: Julie]
Steven Cherry Offline

veteran

Registered: 12/23/99
Posts: 1300
Loc: New York, N.Y.
I've actually only done one route in that neighborhood, and as far as I understand it, it hit the cruxes of both TM and DM. We did only one belay, and it was pretty close to the ground. Combining the routes gives you very good, clean climbing the whole way (at least, at the time it was, this was probably 7-8 years ago), and the difficulty didn't change much, both cruxes are in the 5.7+ to 5.8 range.

So I would prefer not to see bolts here, or even an upgrade to the anchor in question. There's a perfectly good way to go to the top, and wouldn't it be nice if there were at least a few routes that didn't let you just do a first pitch and then lower off?


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#13572 - 11/11/04 08:16 PM Re: *Nasty* Fixed Anchor on Tequila Mockingbird / Dry Martini [Re: Steven Cherry]
learningtolead Offline
old hand

Registered: 04/16/02
Posts: 981
Loc: a wanna be kerhonkson-er
Quote:

So I would prefer not to see bolts here, or even an upgrade to the anchor in question. There's a perfectly good way to go to the top, and wouldn't it be nice if there were at least a few routes that didn't let you just do a first pitch and then lower off?






I did TM just moments before Julie did on Saturday (it was nice to meet you, Julie) and I have to agree with her on the status of that rap station. I wouldn't argue that there need to be bolts there, but getting the pins replaced would be a service to the community. If you want to argue that people should always go to the top of the cliff, that's fine. But if you agree that certain routes where the top pitches are loose or crappy should have anchors mid-way, then this is one that should be included in that group. I don't understand why people only do the first pitch of frog's head but this one, I get it.

The station that is there now is pretty bad. If people really agree that it shouldn't be fixed, then it should probably be dismantled. I personally don't believe that should be the case though.

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#13573 - 11/11/04 09:43 PM Re: *Nasty* Fixed Anchor on Tequila Mockingbird / Dry Martini [Re: Steven Cherry]
pedestrian Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/05/02
Posts: 2244
Loc: a heavily fortified bunker!
Quote:

I've actually only done one route in that neighborhood, and as far as I understand it, it hit the cruxes of both TM and DM. We did only one belay, and it was pretty close to the ground. Combining the routes gives you very good, clean climbing the whole way (at least, at the time it was, this was probably 7-8 years ago), and the difficulty didn't change much, both cruxes are in the 5.7+ to 5.8 range.




Not exactly. You can do the start of Tequila Mockingbird as an alternate start to Dry Martini, and this makes it a much better start from the looks of things. But after that, the routes diverge, and you have to choose between the Dry Martini crux, on the left at about 5.6+, and the wilder Tequila Mocking bird crux at 7+. I can't see any way to link both cruxes without going back down and redoing.

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#13574 - 01/19/05 08:57 AM Re: *Nasty* Fixed Anchor on Tequila Mockingbird / Dry Martini [Re: Julie]
tradjunkie Online   content
enthusiast

Registered: 04/19/04
Posts: 365
I'd be inclined to replace that thing too. As I remember though, climbers on P2 of Drei Martini will be lucky to get that far right. When I did DM I blew well beyond that before I saw it despite lots of looking wondering where the best route was. So moving the anchor up would be good from that perspective, although if memory serves the options are limited/none.

However, I think that anchor is really intended only as a rap anchor, not a climbing anchor. From the joint stance atop P1 of DM and TM one can do a full pitch beyond without stopping there, and it's really not so bad to continue. However, a single-rope rap from the top would require an anchor roughly where the existing one is. And going to the top gives an amusing belay on the last pitch - judging by my watching a guide flail on that 5.5 stem thing, and the multiple pieces of gear I cleaned there from another party (some obviously fallen on, some obviously not), it seems that the stupid little maneouvre gives good mileage for the belayer entertained below.

I'd vote for leaving that thing ("anchor" being a rather generous term) in its current location. However, the pins definitely do need some replacing. Anyone remember what size they were, so someone can carry some new ones up?

I guess I'm sort of begging the question - if there's a fixed rap anchor, does it need to be a full-strength anchor because people will use it? (probably). An anchor that holds 900 pounds is OK as a rap anchor but I bet a lot of folks would blindly use it as a climbing anchor instead of building their own.

Another reason I'd favor upgrading it (maybe 3 nice new pins) is that this location seems to attract 'beefing up' by people who obviously have no clue what makes a decent anchor. Rusty gear, nuts placed wrong, American Triangles, etc. seem to get added on in attempts to strengthen the anchor. Given that this mank is in-situ I can only assume it's left by parties too scared to rap off a pair of bendy pitons.


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