Shout Box

Who's Online
1 registered (Rickster), 12 Guests and 3 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Page 1 of 15 1 2 3 ... 14 15 >
Topic Options
#13873 - 12/24/04 10:39 PM Route recommendations - update
Steven Cherry Offline

veteran

Registered: 12/23/99
Posts: 1300
Loc: New York, N.Y.
Under the "Climb" button we have some lists of recommended routes. Since we're now heavily into the winter most-talk-about-'em phase of the climbing year, I thought it would be nice to add to the lists.

Just as a reminder the four groupings are

 Breaking into the Grade

 Hidden Gems

 Must Do Routes

 Test Pieces

Think of the must-do routes as ones that, if someone were visiting for a week or more, it would be a shame for them to have not done these routes.

Breaking into the grade is self-explanatory; they shouldn't be hard for the grade, but needn't be easy. They should, though, be safe for someone who's struggling with the moves. Good gear for the crux is a must, and easy gear is a plus.

Test pieces are those routes which, if you've led them, you're certainly ready to break into the next grade. (They may even be routes that you hold off on, when you are breaking into the next grade.)

The notion of hidden gems should be self-explanatory too, but I'll start us off with some discoveries I made this year:

5.5 Double Chin - really nice, interesting climbing, right at the Uberfall. A little run-out down low, but all the hard moves are well protected.

5.9 Lower Eaves - this is the corner of the low roof just next to Horseman. The crux is a totally G pump-a-hang, followed by nice Walter-Middy-ish face climbing above. Another overlooked Uberfall gem.

Top
#13874 - 12/24/04 10:54 PM Re: Route recommendations - update [Re: Steven Cherry]
pedestrian Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/05/02
Posts: 2244
Loc: a heavily fortified bunker!
Roseland belongs on the list somewhere, perhaps under Breaking into the Grade. It's one of the few fairly continuous and G rated 5.9's in the Gunks, and it's a very high quality pitch.

Top
#13875 - 12/29/04 03:50 PM Re: Route recommendations - update [Re: Steven Cherry]
yorick Offline
old hand

Registered: 11/15/02
Posts: 1041
Loc: hamlet\'s hand
5.9 - Good Friday Climb: a not so hidden, hidden gem and solid test piece that doesn't make it onto tick lists, probably because it's an easy toprope from Eastertime Too - but it's so worth saving for the on-sight. A thin, arcing crack and face with tricky, thoughtful gear, especially at the crux, where that widening crack that looks so good for a placement means you lose a critical hold. Sustained from the git-go.

From the Peter's Kill:

Must Do
5.9 - Golden Dream: the P' Kill's Ant's Line. You'll wish it continued for a thousand feet.

Breaking into the Grade
5.10 - Oops. Probably not the mid-range 10 the guidebook suggests, which makes it a wonderful entry level route for those looking to advance from the 9s. Good gear, a low crux, and pumpy jug-hauling all the way to the anchors.

5.10 - Circuit Breaker. A furious primer on plug & chug. Another soft 10, but another great entry route. You'll feel like Clint Eastwood, hip-shooting for gear from steep, crisp edges, until you're stopped dead by the abrupt, what the f*ck exit.


_________________________
Shongum ain\'t Indian,
it\'s Shawank-unk.

Top
#13876 - 12/30/04 01:19 AM Re: Route recommendations - update [Re: yorick]
Steven Cherry Offline

veteran

Registered: 12/23/99
Posts: 1300
Loc: New York, N.Y.
Not doing Peterskill, sorry.

On Good Friday Climb, is it fair to call the gear PG-R, or would you say PG?

Top
#13877 - 12/30/04 03:31 AM Re: Route recommendations - update [Re: Steven Cherry]
hangdog Offline
stranger

Registered: 12/30/04
Posts: 24
Loc: The Gunks
Breaking into the grade:
5.2 Twin Oaks-Straight forward if you don’t get your knee jammed into the widening crack as I saw one guy do.
5.5 Triple Bulges- Great face climbing with short but fun cruxes. Start out on Finger Locks and you have the best most continuous 5.5 climbing in the Gunk’s. -And G rated all the way.
5.8 Arrow- Only one move at the grade but the overall climb requires solid 6/7 climbing and a cool head. The run out on the third pitch should be noted even though it should be no problem for a 5.7/8 leader.

Must Do:
5.7 Te Dum- A Nears Classic with fun varied climbing an exciting crux and a great belay in an open book. The final pitch is much easier but very nice.
5.7 Strictly from Nowhere- Classic linkup with Shockley’s for great sustained climbing
5.8 Snooky’s Return- The first pitch should be on every climber tick list. Great thin face/crack for the grade.

Hidden Gems:
5.5 RMC-Good climbing at the grade.
5.6 Son of a Bitchy Virgin-Protection is difficult especially on the upper third of the second pitch, a big steep wall for the grade, I really liked this climb but should have a PG/R rating
5.7 Cakewalk- Varied climbing, a surprisingly good pitch.
5.6 Wrist- Three distinctly different pitches. Fair face climbing on the first pitch leads to a committing layback (bring a large cam) on the second. The third pitch is a wild hand traverse around an overhang leading to a clean white face.
5.8/8+ Moxie- Great climbing if you can find it. If you do the direct start (instead of diagonal from the left) fairly sustained. The open book is a challenge for the 5.8 leader and tricky to protect.

Test Piece:
5.7+ CCK
This one should really be in this category. The route finding on the second pitch alone requires thoughtful, careful climbing or the seriousness increases. In fact the safest variation is 5.8 so maybe it should be in the Must do section for 5.8.



Top
#13878 - 12/30/04 01:03 PM Re: Route recommendations - update [Re: Steven Cherry]
yorick Offline
old hand

Registered: 11/15/02
Posts: 1041
Loc: hamlet\'s hand
Quote:

On Good Friday Climb, is it fair to call the gear PG-R, or would you say PG?




both guidebooks suggest PG, and i've taken falls at the crux without ripping gear...i don't think the gear is any worse than it is on a comparable climb like higher stannard, but it may be a bit tougher to place...you just need to be solid in the grade, hence the test piece suggestion (swain calls it 9+)...
_________________________
Shongum ain\'t Indian,
it\'s Shawank-unk.

Top
#13879 - 12/30/04 04:06 PM Re: Route recommendations - update [Re: pedestrian]
GOclimb Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/26/01
Posts: 2359
Loc: Boston
Quote:

Roseland belongs on the list somewhere, perhaps under Breaking into the Grade. It's one of the few fairly continuous and G rated 5.9's in the Gunks, and it's a very high quality pitch.




I definitely would not consider RL a "breaking into the grade" climb. More of a "must do". Of the five 5.9s I've done at the Gunks (RL, Maria Direct, Dirty Gerdie, MF, and Ant's Line) RL was physically the hardest for me. Of the five of them, it has the most sustained 5.9 climbing.

"must-do" 5.9 - Roseland and MF get my votes.

By the way, is there a consensus grade for The Dangler? If it's 5.9, then I'd add it to the list of "must-do" 5.9s.

GO

Top
#13880 - 12/30/04 04:20 PM Re: Route recommendations - update [Re: Steven Cherry]
GOclimb Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/26/01
Posts: 2359
Loc: Boston
Hidden Gems: I'd add CC Route. I really enjoyed this route. Bring the biggest cam you got.

GO

Top
#13881 - 12/30/04 04:21 PM Re: Route recommendations - update [Re: hangdog]
empicard Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/29/01
Posts: 2955
Loc: LI, NY
Quote:

5.5 Triple Bulges- Great face climbing with short but fun cruxes. Start out on Finger Locks and you have the best most continuous 5.5 climbing in the Gunk’s. -And G rated all the way.



i really dont know if i can agree with triple bulges being G rated. gear when you need it, but i recall going a good 25-30 feet off the ledge before getting in any gear.
easy climbing, and after that its fine, but thats along way to go to be considered G, no?
_________________________
tOOthless

Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.

Top
#13882 - 12/30/04 04:30 PM Re: Route recommendations - update [Re: Steven Cherry]
GOclimb Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/26/01
Posts: 2359
Loc: Boston
Another 5.6 testpiece: Moonlight. Most scared I've ever been on a 5.6. RR put it well when he said about Moonlight that "It's everything High E is cracked up to be."

GO

Top
#13883 - 12/31/04 03:04 AM Re: Route recommendations - update [Re: GOclimb]
Mike Rawdon Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/29/99
Posts: 4276
Loc: Poughkeepsie
Quote:

By the way, is there a consensus grade for The Dangler? If it's 5.9, then I'd add it to the list of "must-do" 5.9s.

GO




In a word...no.

I also do not feel Triple Bulges is G rated. The steepish face at the start of P2 has significant ledgefall potential.

Top
#13884 - 01/01/05 02:50 AM Re: Route recommendations - update [Re: Steven Cherry]
Daniel Offline
veteran

Registered: 05/23/01
Posts: 1515
Now that I've gotten some 5.8s under my lead belt . . . .

Two Must Do routes:

Annie Oh! Move for move, p2 gets my vote for the best climbing at the grade so far. Starts off easy, then throws a puzzle at you, then a few moves to very different puzzle, then several more feet to something still harder... one harder and more interesting spot after another to an amazingly sweet crux-exit move. One of the few climbs that made me whoop when I finished it! And I didn't find the gear on p2 particularly worrisome. P1 is another matter, very runout at the bottom and still a little sparse where it gets harder towards the top; might be better off doing p1 of Three Doves or Limelight to avoid 5.5ish R-X climbing.

Modern Times. I think it's the High Exposure of the 5.8s: other climbs may have more consistent moves at the grade, but the crux is tremendously committing and tremendously exposed. The sustained overhangs force a balance between being deliberate enough not to blow the move and the urge to power through before pumping out. Certainly provides a well-deserved feeling of accomplishment as you catch your breath on top! And if the leader falls, it should be all air on good gear. (And if the second falls, it's time to break out the prussiks!) I think most people would say it's a must-do that's also a testpiece.



Top
#13885 - 01/01/05 03:37 PM Re: Route recommendations - update [Re: hangdog]
pedestrian Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/05/02
Posts: 2244
Loc: a heavily fortified bunker!
Quote:

Breaking into the grade:
5.2 Twin Oaks-Straight forward if you don’t get your knee jammed into the widening crack as I saw one guy do.




Yeah, but don't bother with the second pitch.

Quote:

5.5 Triple Bulges- Great face climbing with short but fun cruxes. Start out on Finger Locks and you have the best most continuous 5.5 climbing in the Gunk’s. -And G rated all the way.




Well, 5.5G except for the 5.3X runout in the middle... not recommended for the 5.5 leader.

Quote:

Test Piece:
5.7+ CCK
This one should really be in this category. The route finding on the second pitch alone requires thoughtful, careful climbing or the seriousness increases. In fact the safest variation is 5.8 so maybe it should be in the Must do section for 5.8.




Debatable? The original route may be protected better than the way many people seem to do it.

Top
#13886 - 01/01/05 09:06 PM Re: Route recommendations - update [Re: pedestrian]
empicard Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/29/01
Posts: 2955
Loc: LI, NY
on the subject of triple bulges,
Quote:

Debatable? The original route may be protected better than the way many people seem to do it.



where?
_________________________
tOOthless

Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.

Top
#13887 - 01/02/05 09:35 AM Re: Route recommendations - update [Re: empicard]
pedestrian Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/05/02
Posts: 2244
Loc: a heavily fortified bunker!
Quote:

on the subject of triple bulges,
Quote:

Debatable? The original route may be protected better than the way many people seem to do it.



where?




That part was about CCK not Triple Bulges. Search for the extensive CCK threads from a few months ago.

Top
#13888 - 01/03/05 02:06 PM Re: Route recommendations - update [Re: Steven Cherry]
crackers Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 03/21/01
Posts: 3424
Loc: pdx
breaking into the grade: first pitch of three doves to second pitch of annie oh!

good easy climbing with opportunity to build anchors with tri cams or nuts or aliens right underneath the crux so you get a clean fall if you blow it.

Top
#13889 - 01/03/05 05:40 PM Re: Route recommendations - update [Re: crackers]
nerdom Offline
Pooh-Bah *

Registered: 09/07/01
Posts: 2483
Loc: Davis Sq., MA
I will second the P2 Annie Oh! "must do" recommendation. Phenomenal climbing on steep, clean rock, with a puzzling exit move. But I'd recommend getting to it via P1 of Three Doves or Limelight.

As for Te Dum, I also think it's a great "must do" for the grade, but would strongly recommend doing it in one pitch. No need to belay at the little tree.
_________________________
we're all living proof that nothing lasts

Top
#13890 - 01/03/05 07:58 PM Re: Route recommendations - update [Re: crackers]
Coppertone Offline
old hand

Registered: 08/17/00
Posts: 1055
Loc: Newtown, CT
Quote:

breaking into the grade: first pitch of three doves to second pitch of annie oh!

good easy climbing with opportunity to build anchors with tri cams or nuts or aliens right underneath the crux so you get a clean fall if you blow it.




I think that pitch 2 of Annie Oh has fantastic climbing on it, but to reccomend this for breaking into the grade is a really bad idea. I assume that you are speaking of 5.8. In the first place I have seen this pitch as 8+ in several places. Additonally the climbing is not all that easy for 5.8 in several places. When you come up to the base of the large flake there is a a good bit of loose rock there, its not going anywhere but could be quite disconcerting for the new 5.8 leader. In addition the moves up and over the right side of the large flake are not all that easy or straight foward. Then you have a good little run out up a thin face before you reach the final move which is no gimme by a longshot. A great route, interesting and exciting moves to be sure, but not for a first 5.8 by any stretch, its neighbor Arrow is far more suited for that purpose.

Top
#13891 - 01/03/05 08:03 PM Re: Route recommendations - Annie Oh! [Re: Coppertone]
crackers Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 03/21/01
Posts: 3424
Loc: pdx
I really am not to be trusted on some grades. I can't really tell the difference between 8 and 8+. Lets call the second pitch of Annie Oh! a must do rather than a first do then...

Is the first pitch of Three Doves a good intro to the grade then?


Top
#13892 - 01/03/05 08:09 PM Re: Route recommendations - Annie Oh! [Re: crackers]
Coppertone Offline
old hand

Registered: 08/17/00
Posts: 1055
Loc: Newtown, CT
Quote:

I really am not to be trusted on some grades. I can't really tell the difference between 8 and 8+. Lets call the second pitch of Annie Oh! a must do rather than a first do then...

Is the first pitch of Three Doves a good intro to the grade then?






I'm not any good at telling 5.7, from 5.8+ either, but I'm pretty sure that if I was on Annie Oh as my first 5.8 I would really scared. If I remember correctly I think that either the first pitch of Snookys or Arrow were my first 5.8 and they were very comfortable.

Top
#13893 - 01/03/05 08:13 PM Re: Route recommendations - Annie Oh! [Re: Coppertone]
crackers Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 03/21/01
Posts: 3424
Loc: pdx
Annie Oh! was my first trad lead.

Top
#13894 - 01/03/05 08:36 PM Re: Route recommendations - Annie Oh! [Re: crackers]
Coppertone Offline
old hand

Registered: 08/17/00
Posts: 1055
Loc: Newtown, CT
Quote:

Annie Oh! was my first trad lead.



Thats a great first lead, but you obviously did not work you way up through grades, You must have been climbing strong already. For someone who has worked through 5.6 and 5.7 and been challenged on the way I would think they would want a more mellow climb to start 5.8 on.

Top
#13895 - 01/03/05 08:58 PM Re: Route recommendations - Annie Oh! [Re: Coppertone]
crackers Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 03/21/01
Posts: 3424
Loc: pdx
I did work my way up thru the grades...just didn't start with the gunks myth/different grades.

Top
#13896 - 01/03/05 09:29 PM Re: Route recommendations - Annie Oh! [Re: crackers]
empicard Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/29/01
Posts: 2955
Loc: LI, NY
Quote:

I did work my way up thru the grades...just didn't start with the gunks myth/different grades.




huh?
_________________________
tOOthless

Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.

Top
#13897 - 01/04/05 02:44 AM Re: Route recommendations - Annie Oh! [Re: empicard]
chip Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 10/06/01
Posts: 2676
Loc: Sittin' Pretty in Fat City
add pitch 1 of Son of Easy -O to a good break in for 5.8. Little bit of the typical gunks boulder move at the bottom but G pro all the way. I also think Annie-O is way stiff to break into 8s.

Top
#13898 - 01/04/05 03:51 AM Re: Route recommendations - Annie Oh! [Re: chip]
Aya Offline
old hand

Registered: 11/18/04
Posts: 754
Loc: Climbing somewhere
I don't know, Annie Oh! was my first and thus far only 5.8. I just did it on Saturday and although I placed a #!%$load of gear, it didn't seem particularly run out or anything?? And there is plenty of easy gear to place just before the scary loose flake and before the exit move. It depends on the type of climbing that suits you, I suppose - recall that the first time I did it by accident I thought it was a 5.4 and didn't really know the difference until someone told me so after it was done. On the other hand, I simply can't at the moment see myself ever leading, say, Something Interesting despite it being a grade or so lower, simply because of the more vertical nature of the climb. Hell, I can't see myself leading High E because I'm afraid I'll pump out.
_________________________
Gunks T-Shirts!

Top
#13899 - 01/04/05 03:55 AM Re: Route recommendations - Annie Oh! [Re: Aya]
empicard Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/29/01
Posts: 2955
Loc: LI, NY
right when you think youre going to pump out and blow it its over.
YMMV.
_________________________
tOOthless

Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.

Top
#13900 - 01/04/05 04:33 AM Re: Route recommendations - Annie Oh! [Re: Aya]
Allenperry Offline
member

Registered: 02/11/03
Posts: 195
Loc: Reading, Pennsylvania
Quote:

I don't know, Annie Oh! was my first and thus far only 5.8. I just did it on Saturday and although I placed a #!%$load of gear, it didn't seem particularly run out or anything?? And there is plenty of easy gear to place just before the scary loose flake and before the exit move. It depends on the type of climbing that suits you, I suppose - recall that the first time I did it by accident I thought it was a 5.4 and didn't really know the difference until someone told me so after it was done. On the other hand, I simply can't at the moment see myself ever leading, say, Something Interesting despite it being a grade or so lower, simply because of the more vertical nature of the climb. Hell, I can't see myself leading High E because I'm afraid I'll pump out.




Do you have schizophrenia?
_________________________
Perry

Top
#13901 - 01/04/05 03:01 PM Re: Route recommendations - Annie Oh! [Re: Allenperry]
nerdom Offline
Pooh-Bah *

Registered: 09/07/01
Posts: 2483
Loc: Davis Sq., MA
I think P1 of Boldville would be a good "Breaking Into the Grade" climb for 5.8. I actually found it pretty strenuous, but the gear is super plentiful, and the moves are great! You get the burly-ish pull over the initial hang, then the big arching crack, where you can milk the jams, using fairly delicate smears, then the tricky, balancy move right onto the face, and the finishing move to the fixed anchor. All falls would be clean. Really nice climbing that I'd recommend to anyone.
_________________________
we're all living proof that nothing lasts

Top
#13902 - 01/04/05 06:49 PM Re: Route recommendations - update [Re: Steven Cherry]
chazman Offline
old hand

Registered: 02/07/02
Posts: 944
I'm not sure where to log these (maybe Hidden Gems?) but the first pitches of Face to Face and No Glow are nice long moderates in their own right (if you're not up for leading the upper pitches like myself )

Top
#13903 - 01/05/05 01:26 AM Re: Route recommendations - Annie Oh! [Re: nerdom]
Steven Cherry Offline

veteran

Registered: 12/23/99
Posts: 1300
Loc: New York, N.Y.
I'm interested to hear other opinions of Boldville. I only did it once, and thought it was a bit awkward, and the gear, while plentiful, wasn't simple--the placements all faced the wrong way or something.

I remember thinking it might be one of those rare routes that's more fun to follow than lead. But I never have gotten on it a second time.

Top
#13904 - 01/05/05 03:10 AM Re: Route recommendations - Annie Oh! [Re: Steven Cherry]
Mike Rawdon Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/29/99
Posts: 4276
Loc: Poughkeepsie
Quote:

I'm interested to hear other opinions of Boldville. I only did it once, and thought it was a bit awkward, and the gear, while plentiful, wasn't simple--the placements all faced the wrong way or something.

I remember thinking it might be one of those rare routes that's more fun to follow than lead. But I never have gotten on it a second time.




The first time I led it (onsight), I was so stoked to pull through the cruxy lower section that I floated the rest of it without much sweat. The second time, I felt the lower part was easy but like you, I saw that a taught rope would threaten to pull out a lot of the gear. That bothered me. The third time, the lower move felt rock solid but not necessarily "solid 8", and I was careful to oppose a few key pieces so lifting wasn't a worry. But MAN, when did all those little footholds become so polished? So I was sweatin' bullets for the upper half of the pitch.

At this rate, next time I'll probably run into rope drag...

Bottom line - any pitch that can entertain you in so many ways has got to be classic. So in my book it's more of a must do than a testpiece (no way) or a breaking into. But I think it WAS an early 8 for me.

Top
#13905 - 01/05/05 03:30 PM Re: Route recommendations - Annie Oh! [Re: Mike Rawdon]
pedestrian Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/05/02
Posts: 2244
Loc: a heavily fortified bunker!
zachres and his partner once belayed one of my less-skilled gym buddies from both ends on the Boldville traverse, so it's definitely possible to get solid gear in there.

Top
#13906 - 01/05/05 03:59 PM Re: Route recommendations - Annie Oh! [Re: pedestrian]
Timbo Offline
addict

Registered: 12/23/99
Posts: 694
Loc: Delaware
Did I miss something ?? I did not see Casa Emilio listed at all. To me its a "Must Do" 5.2.

Boldville is a great climb. Its been a couple of years, but I remember good gear all the way. Worst part for me was the lower crux. Slab presented no concerns. I suppose the slab could be getting more polished over time though.

TS
_________________________

Top
#13907 - 01/05/05 07:49 PM Re: Route recommendations - Annie Oh! [Re: Steven Cherry]
Julie Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 01/16/00
Posts: 2090
Loc: SoCal
I like Boldville a lot, because it has a lot of climbing on it, a lot of varied climbing on it, and a lot of different ways you can do all the varied climbing on it. Plus, it gets a rope over the Winter.

I don't think Boldville is a good "breaking into the grade" route. It can be sewn up (believe you me) but there are subtleties to dointg that well - both in terms of gear directionality, and rope drag. The crux gear is fussy and pumpy, and the move itself is somewhat awkward and committing, though there's a good rest below. Also, you're well out of sight of your belayer for most of the route (assuming your belayer isn't 15 feet back), which can make a difference for confidence and advice-giving. Then there's that anchor situation, which requires some attention at the very least, and has the possiblity of adding serious complications; less than ideal, for breaking into a grade.

I think it's a must-do, and a good "solidifying at the grade" route, but not a good first 5.8.

Top
#13908 - 01/05/05 07:57 PM Re: Route recommendations - Annie Oh! [Re: Steven Cherry]
Frank Florence Offline
addict

Registered: 01/05/00
Posts: 528
Loc: moved to Bend
Boldville (p. 1) was one of my first 5.8 climbs and still one of my favorite at the grade. Nerdom's impressions match my own. The pitch involves some powerful moves early on, followed by a crack with some balance steps that get tougher on a humid day. My biggest mistake was waiting for a later trip up it to complete the climb. The second pitch looks more intimidating than it actually is.

Pro is good on both pitches. I first led it back when I only carried three cams on my rack, but recall finding plenty of opportunities to place tricams and stoppers securely.

Top
#13909 - 01/05/05 08:09 PM Re: Route recommendations - update [Re: Steven Cherry]
Julie Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 01/16/00
Posts: 2090
Loc: SoCal
Since I am perpetually "breaking into" 5.9, here are my thoughts on that.

The 6 I have done:
Yellow Belly's P1 roof variation (Steven sandbagged me into this). Good gear at your waist, and the fall would be very clean. In good sight of, and close to, your belayer. A good first 5.9-on-lead, one-move wonder.

WASP. A good first 5.9 for face climbers. A bit PG early on, but good gear after that. Fairly sustained for its 5.9 section, though, and followed by 100' of 5.6 PG, which might be mentally tiring. NB that rapping from a tree 30' right of WASP's end, will get you to the ground in a single 60.

Ants Line. Great early 5.9. The beginning can be a bit scary for shorter climbers - to get the first piece of gear under the roof, I had to move up off of good feet. The crux is very well protected with many different sizes of whatever. Clean fall potential, as it overhangs most of its length. Fighting the pump, between the crux and the anchor, can be a second crux for some.

Groovy (some people claim this is at most 5.6 and climb it in their approach shoes, only then to find out it's really 5.9): short, well-protected, fun, farily sustained. Watch the rope drag. My partners and I have all found that this route can "feel" hard or easy, depending on the day.

Absurdland: Some people claim the crux is off the ground, and that it's an ankle-breaker, but I think they're wrong on both counts (it's obvious how to protect that move, no good belayer will let you reach the ground, and the move itself isn't that hard). A sweet, sweet route with good gear its whole way; the key here is to maximize relaxation.

Spring P1: NOT a good early 5.9. The gear at the crux is good, but fussy; the gear below that -looks- and feels good, but I've seen it pull (from rope tension while lowering, or just from movement while climbing) for 4 climbers out of 5. Past the crux, there are smally finicky nuts, but it's groundfall range until you get the next bomber drop-in piece, and the climbing is sustained and a bit pumpy. It's a great, sweet route, a must-do, but not for breaking in.

Top
#13910 - 01/05/05 08:42 PM Re: Route recommendations - update [Re: Julie]
dalguard Offline
veteran

Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 1515
Loc: CT
I couldn't begin to tell you which 9s are good for breaking into the grade because so few were onsights and I have a feeling that leading Ant's Line or MF after four years of climbing it doesn't tell you much about how a newer leader would feel. And then there are the ones I've done way too many times that I still haven't led for various reasons. As we were discussing at GunksFest, a lot of people do Aploplexy as a first 9. I still haven't led it, despite having been on it more often than any other route at the Gunks. It's not even on my list for next season.

I thought Groovy was 8. If it's a nine it should be an early one. Same goes for people trying to make Bonnie's out as a 9. Absurdland, on the other hand, wigged me out pretty good, but I didn't have that one wired already. Ditto for Wasp. I had followed them each once and not so recently, so they're what do they call that where it's like a flash because you're too senile to remember it? The direct start of Yellow Belly and the third pitch of Arc of the Diver have similar short, well-protected bits of 5.9. Those were both new to me when I led them and are probably the only two bits of real 9 I led cleanly on a first try at the Gunks, therefore they must be easy.

Top
#13911 - 01/05/05 09:39 PM Re: Route recommendations - update [Re: dalguard]
Julie Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 01/16/00
Posts: 2090
Loc: SoCal
Interesting ... I don't think of breaking-into a grade as synonymous with onsighting at all. I think those are separate catagories really ... I'd want a breaking-into route to be better protected, since it's more likely that you'll fall trying to break into a new grade. Onsighting is a different animal - where you probably have a good "feel" for the grade, just not the route.

In the spirit of full disclosure, I onsighted Yellow Belly (wan't expecting to be climbing 5.9, only found out after the fact that it was, damn you Steven! ). WASP was an Alzheimer's onsight, I'd TRd it once two years before. Groovy and Ants I'd climbed enough to know what the difficulties were. Ants, Spring, and Absurdland all required two leads to get cleanly, so nowhere near onsighting.

Top
#13912 - 01/05/05 10:06 PM Re: Route recommendations - update [Re: Julie]
Coppertone Offline
old hand

Registered: 08/17/00
Posts: 1055
Loc: Newtown, CT
Quote:

Interesting ... I don't think of breaking-into a grade as synonymous with onsighting at all. I think those are separate catagories really ... I'd want a breaking-into route to be better protected, since it's more likely that you'll fall trying to break into a new grade. Onsighting is a different animal - where you probably have a good "feel" for the grade, just not the route.




Huh?
Onsighting is just that onsighting, whether it is a route that you are using to break into the grade or a route that is a test piece at a particular grade. If someone likes to onsight routes rather than lead them with previous knowledge it has nothing to do with whether or not the route is hard/easy/well protected for the grade.

Also you mentioned that the gear at the crux on the Spring is fussy? I assume that you mean the small overlap is the crux. That spot takes about a good a nut that is about as easy to place as you could hope for. The crack that is in the corner just above the overlap is very easy to reach from below and takes a nut that slides down about 6 inches, bomber. Also the gear above the crux is all bomber medium sized cams or nuts that go in very easily. I think that you may just have been pumped out and had diffuculty placing gear. That climb is also much less pumpy if you are able work into good stems, there are a number of no hand rests on the Spring.

Top
#13913 - 01/05/05 10:20 PM Re: Route recommendations - update [Re: Julie]
MarcC Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/10/00
Posts: 3532
Quote:

In the spirit of full disclosure, I onsighted Yellow Belly (wan't expecting to be climbing 5.9, only found out after the fact that it was, damn you Steven! ). WASP was an Alzheimer's onsight, I'd TRd it once two years before. Groovy and Ants I'd climbed enough to know what the difficulties were.




For many decades, visiting climbers thought Gunks ratings were sandbag. Certainly part of this was unfamiliarity with the buckety overhangs. Imagine how much harder Shockley's is if done entirely with hand and foot jams. Dick addressed this with his 1980 guide, where a lot of routes were regraded upward to bring them more in line with climbs of that grade elsewhere. I've often thought that the best list of "breaking into the grade" climbs were those that were upgraded since, with few exceptions (where the pre-80 grade was blatantly wrong), they were on the easier end of their new grade. Pre-1980, Yellow Belly, Groovy, and Wasp were all graded 5.8, as was Birdland. So the task to compile such a list would be to compare the ratings in the 1972 guide to the recent guides. I've been threatening myself to do this for a few years now instead of relying on fading memory.

Some other under 5.10 climbs and their pre 1980 rating that come to mind:

Three Pines 5.2
Hawk 5.4
Shockley's Ceiling 5.5
Moonlight 5.5
Disneyland 5.5
Hyjek's Horror 5.7
Limelight 5.6
Arrow 5.7
Middle Earth 5.6
Something Interesting 5.7
Bonnies Roof 5.8
Frustration Syndrome 5.9

Never Never Land - a real schitzoid - it seems with every new guide it was rerated, bouncing around between 5.9, 5.9+, 5.10-, and 5.10. Yet imho, it's harder than most if not all of the 10a face climbs I've done in Yosemite, Tuolumne, Mt. Lemmon, City of Rocks, New River Gorge, and Skaha.
_________________________
- Marc

Top
#13914 - 01/05/05 10:57 PM Re: Route recommendations - update [Re: Coppertone]
Julie Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 01/16/00
Posts: 2090
Loc: SoCal
Interesting ... I don't think of breaking-into a grade as synonymous with onsighting at all. I think those are separate catagories really ... I'd want a breaking-into route to be better protected, since it's more likely that you'll fall trying to break into a new grade. Onsighting is a different animal - where you probably have a good "feel" for the grade, just not the route.

Huh?
Onsighting is just that onsighting, whether it is a route that you are using to break into the grade or a route that is a test piece at a particular grade.

Yes: you can onsight at many grades, whereas you really only "break into" one grade at a time. Thus, not synonymous.

If someone likes to onsight routes rather than lead them with previous knowledge it has nothing to do with whether or not the route is hard/easy/well protected for the grade.
Agreed. But when I'm recommending routes for breaking into a grade, I like to recommend ones that are well-protected. That's not necessarily true for recommending onsights -- if you're onsighting well below your limit, for example.

Also you mentioned that the gear at the crux on the Spring is fussy? I assume that you mean the small overlap is the crux. That spot takes about a good a nut that is about as easy to place as you could hope for.
Yes, the small overlap. There are several options - gear to the left under the overhang (requires a longer runner, adding to the groundfall potential later); a cam just to right of the corner works well for me, but it's very pebbly and irregular right there. A nut ... remember that the piece below that, has most likely lifted already. Zipper potential.

The crack that is in the corner just above the overlap is very easy to reach from below and takes a nut that slides down about 6 inches, bomber.
Bomber, yes, but it's a very small nut, and not obvious at all from where you're placing it.

Also the gear above the crux is all bomber medium sized cams or nuts that go in very easily. I think that you may just have been pumped out and had diffuculty placing gear. That climb is also much less pumpy if you are able work into good stems, there are a number of no hand rests on the Spring.
I had no trouble with gear or resting myself (my troubles are always above the shoulder), but Mike (Murphy's Law) took a groundfall from above the crux ... from what he told me, a combination of a badly-placed green alien (trying to slam a cam instead of the drop-in nut), having gotten suckered into keeping climbing instead of placing (that next stance/hold always looks better), and not finding a good rest. Mike's a good climber, and those mistakes are too easy to make. Altogether, the margin of error is pretty small on the Spring, so I wouldn't recommend it to break into the grade. It's a fantastic onsight, but I wouldn' t send a green 5.9 leader up it.

Top
#13915 - 01/05/05 11:16 PM Re: Route recommendations - update [Re: Julie]
Mike Rawdon Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/29/99
Posts: 4276
Loc: Poughkeepsie
Quote:

Interesting ... I don't think of breaking-into a grade as synonymous with onsighting at all. I think those are separate catagories really ... I'd want a breaking-into route to be better protected, since it's more likely that you'll fall trying to break into a new grade. Onsighting is a different animal - where you probably have a good "feel" for the grade, just not the route.





I understand what you mean. For years I have scratched my head every time someone asks, "What's a good first 5.x to lead?". The implication being that they are going to onsight an unknown pitch for their first experience leading at a new grade. I can't think of a better way (well, OK, I suppose I could ) to run into trouble than to pile unprecedented difficulty on top of unknown climbing. Now I know there are people who do this, and they are happy falling their way into each new grade, but that's certainly not been my style. So when someone asks, "What's a good first 5.x to lead?" my answer is, "The one you know really, really well". Lead half a dozen 5.x's before you ever try to onsight at that level. IMO of course; YMMV.

Top
#13916 - 01/05/05 11:22 PM Re: Route recommendations - update [Re: Julie]
MarcC Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/10/00
Posts: 3532
Quote:

I assume that you mean the small overlap is the crux.
Yes, the small overlap.




Gee, I always thought the crux of the first pitch of The Spring was the step out to the right at the top of the corner (or alternately, powering straight up). The small overlap/hang low down always seemed pretty straightforward.

[And as we know, the actual crux of the route is the funky 10-something roof on the second pitch with the akward pro.]
_________________________
- Marc

Top
#13917 - 01/05/05 11:35 PM Re: Route recommendations - update [Re: MarcC]
Julie Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 01/16/00
Posts: 2090
Loc: SoCal
Gee, I always thought the crux of the first pitch of The Spring was the step out to the right at the top of the corner (or alternately, powering straight up).

The actual moves there aren't so hard (keep stemming, kemosabe), just a little intimidating I think maybe, you have to figure one last thing out right when you could be Done.

The small overlap/hang low down always seemed pretty straightforward.
The first time I ever saw the route, a woman was trying to onsight it, had gear (clipped waaay long) left below the rooflet, and was pulling it straight up, uttely ignoring the corner. It looked hard. Of course, I thought she knew something I didn't, and tried to do it the same way, because I am a lemming

Top
#13918 - 01/05/05 11:54 PM Re: Route recommendations - update [Re: Mike Rawdon]
GOclimb Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/26/01
Posts: 2359
Loc: Boston
Quote:

Quote:

Interesting ... I don't think of breaking-into a grade as synonymous with onsighting at all. I think those are separate catagories really ... I'd want a breaking-into route to be better protected, since it's more likely that you'll fall trying to break into a new grade. Onsighting is a different animal - where you probably have a good "feel" for the grade, just not the route.





I understand what you mean. For years I have scratched my head every time someone asks, "What's a good first 5.x to lead?". The implication being that they are going to onsight an unknown pitch for their first experience leading at a new grade. I can't think of a better way (well, OK, I suppose I could ) to run into trouble than to pile unprecedented difficulty on top of unknown climbing. Now I know there are people who do this, and they are happy falling their way into each new grade, but that's certainly not been my style. So when someone asks, "What's a good first 5.x to lead?" my answer is, "The one you know really, really well". Lead half a dozen 5.x's before you ever try to onsight at that level. IMO of course; YMMV.




Hmm, that's fine for you keemosabe, living a couple miles from the Gunks as you do. With a 3 to 4 hour drive, I'd rather get on new stuff almost every time. And I'm often the stronger climber when I go, so when the leading gets hard (for us) the rope goes to me. Now that doesn't mean that I fall a lot. On the contrary, it means that I almost always get the onsight of the climbs at my (Gunks) limit.

GO

Top
#13919 - 01/06/05 12:07 AM Re: Route recommendations - Boldville [Re: Steven Cherry]
Daniel Offline
veteran

Registered: 05/23/01
Posts: 1515
I'm interested to hear other opinions of Boldville. I only did it once, and thought it was a bit awkward, and the gear, while plentiful, wasn't simple--the placements all faced the wrong way or something.

Led p1 this past season. I enjoyed the route, but I'm glad it wasn't an early 5.8 for me. There is good gear, but I found it strenuous to get in due to a lack of good stances; I think I was usually gastoning and smearing or underclinging and smearing (or had very small feet). And I agree that some of the placements were awkward. I also thought it was fairly sustained. So I wouldn't recommend it for breaking into the grade.

I think it's a route that Gunks climbers should definitely have high on their list for the grade, but if a friend of mine were visiting the cliff I don't think I'd put it in the top four or five. So as much as I liked the pitch, I wouldn't put it in the "must-do" category either (though I'd certainly put it in a "should-do" category). I'd put Airy Aria ahead of it: similar climbing on p1, and then a really exposed and very exciting p2 (even if it goes at 5.7).

I didn't do p2 of Boldville, though I wish I had. I've read it has a "nice overhang." Does it up the quality of the climb overall?

Top
#13920 - 01/06/05 12:12 AM Re: Route recommendations - update [Re: Mike Rawdon]
crackers Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 03/21/01
Posts: 3424
Loc: pdx
i like onsighting my first grade 5.XX leads. It gets harder and harder, so you have to train harder and harder. But that's easy enough. Find a similar looking climb 5.XX+X and top rope the hell out of it...

I onsighted a bunch of grades. I fell a lot on MF, i will give you that, but I usually picked a soft one for the first one, and then consolidated the grade slowly.

Frustration Syndrome as .9? hmmm. I guess men were men back then.

Top
#13921 - 01/06/05 04:16 AM Re: Route recommendations - update [Re: crackers]
Frank Florence Offline
addict

Registered: 01/05/00
Posts: 528
Loc: moved to Bend
The second pitch of Boldville goes off on a traverse that requires some thoughtful consideration (of the "Where do I go now?" variety) and there's some lichen on the final face. But overall, it works together to make a finish with a flavor of adventure and discovery.

Is it a classic? Maybe not. And while it's not a hidden gem, it's in a section of the Trapps that's often less crowded on weekends than other parts and where there are other similar grade routes. I guess it's a conditional must-do. If I was going to recommend Double Crack to a visitor, I'd certainly say, "...and while you're down there, take a look at Boldville." It's nice to point someone to a solid, Gunky climb that doesn't feel like a total trade route.

Top
#13922 - 01/06/05 03:34 PM Re: Route recommendations - update [Re: crackers]
GOclimb Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/26/01
Posts: 2359
Loc: Boston
Come to think of it, every hardest lead to date that I've done has been onsight. In fact, I have never practiced a climb on TR with the intent of leading it. Not once. (Not that there's anything wrong with that. )

Wait, that's a lie. I aided a climb once on TR, but the gear from 15 feet to 50 feet is so poor, I think I'll probably never lead it.

GO

Top
#13923 - 01/06/05 04:31 PM Re: Route recommendations - update [Re: Steven Cherry]
talus Offline
veteran

Registered: 08/23/04
Posts: 1259
must do
westward ha
_________________________
John Okner Photography

Top
#13924 - 01/06/05 04:55 PM Re: Route recommendations - update [Re: GOclimb]
Coppertone Offline
old hand

Registered: 08/17/00
Posts: 1055
Loc: Newtown, CT
As far as the Spring goes, I agree that it is not the best climb for a first 5.9, in that the gear before the small hang is a little sparse and it is easy to get pumped if you don't remain relaxed and work the rests. As far as alot of people zippering gear on that climb, that is just poor gear placement. The only piece that I have seen come out consistantly is the first small nut before the hang as it generally only good for downward and has no real upward resistance, but it is plenty good to get you to the bomber gear at the hang, after that who cares if it lifts out its not doing you any good anyway. Any gear that lifts out at or after the hang was either poorly placed or the wrong gear, that whole climb from the hang up takes bomber nuts, cams or tricams. Also the sinker nut at the hang is that small, I usually use a #3 or #4 walnut. A really fun and entertaining climb no matter how you slice it.

With regard to onsighting a climb that you are breaking into the grade with, why onsight a bunch of 5.8's and then TR or follow someone on what would be your first 5.9. If you have onsighted a bunch of 5.8's what is so different about onsighting a soft 5.9. I have done plenty of 5.8s that I thought were harder than 5.9's. That can be said for any grade. If you enjoy onsighting, don't stop because it is new grade. If you like to redpoint after previewiing a route there is absolutely nothing wrong with that either. As long as you are have fun climbing that is what is important.

Top
#13925 - 01/06/05 05:41 PM Re: Route recommendations - update [Re: Coppertone]
dalguard Offline
veteran

Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 1515
Loc: CT
There's a difference between TR rehearsing a lead and having partners who lead harder than you do. I've never intentionally rehearsed a lead but by the time I was starting to lead 5.9s I had already been on all the best candidates and most of them I'd been on repeatedly. Ant's Line and MF are classics and I can't tell you how many times I followed them before I led them.

When I say that I don't know what's a good breaking into 5.9 and what's not, I mean that my data is skewed by being very familiar with the climbs. I know whether I personally am comfortable with the gear where my personal crux on the route is. This is very me-specific information.

When I go to other places I get the opportunity to try to onsight near my leading limit. Oddly, I do better on those new routes than I do on the repeats at the Gunks. I've always attributed this to the sandbagged ratings at the Gunks but now I'm starting to rethink it. Maybe I just psych myself out too much.


Edited by dalguard (01/06/05 05:44 PM)

Top
#13926 - 01/06/05 05:56 PM Re: Route recommendations - update [Re: dalguard]
Julie Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 01/16/00
Posts: 2090
Loc: SoCal
WASP was an 'Alzheimer's' onsight for me, meaning that though I knew I'd followed it once way long before, I remembered nothing about it by the time I went to lead it (rare for me!), such that it was for all intents & purposes, an onsight when I led it (cleanly).

That said, I think as long as you didn't fall in the first 10 feet, the gear is good, you'd be fine.

Funny story - I pointed Mike (Murph) towards that route this fall. I didn't want to "ruin" his onsight, so I said something (purposefully) vague about the difficulties being over by the time you reach the rooflet that's about 50 feet up. So when he got there, I was pretty surprised that he spent -forever- getting in this huge nest of like 5 pieces. Had no idea what was going on, and I almost started getting worried. He steps left, and says "I thought you said -that- was the difficulty!!!" It was really funny, seeing him get so worked up over a 5.4 move.

Coppertone, while we might differ about the details, I think we agree that the overall margin of error on the Spring is pretty low - it's deceptively easy to get yourself in real trouble - so it's not a good breaking-in route.

Top
#13927 - 01/06/05 05:59 PM Re: Route recommendations - on Yellow Belly [Re: dalguard]
nerdom Offline
Pooh-Bah *

Registered: 09/07/01
Posts: 2483
Loc: Davis Sq., MA
My buddy, who makes a pilgrimage to the Gunks every fall, and who onsighted Fat Stick Direct and Welcome to the Gunks among other Gunks 5.10's, thought Yellow Belly was the most sandbagged 5.8 he ever climbed!

My money is on Casablanca! That roof tripped me up for some time, before I just got the balls to go for it (with that lovely, small, blind-placed gear in the huge flexing flake). I got a great lie-down rest before finally nutting up for the move! (and Rawdon got a nice picture of that rest! )
_________________________
we're all living proof that nothing lasts

Top
#13928 - 01/06/05 06:00 PM Re: Route recommendations - update [Re: Julie]
pedestrian Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/05/02
Posts: 2244
Loc: a heavily fortified bunker!
Not sure WASP (that's the one on the Slime Wall, right?) is a good first 5.9. It's pretty PG, gear is suspect down near the ground where you need it most, etc. One of my partners, who shall remain nameless, had to back off it...

If you're over by WASP, take a few steps to the right and do the some of Dance climbs... Sundance is nice, and the perfect introduction to overhanging 5.6.

Top
#13929 - 01/06/05 06:01 PM Re: Route recommendations - on Yellow Belly [Re: nerdom]
pedestrian Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/05/02
Posts: 2244
Loc: a heavily fortified bunker!
Quote:

My money is on Casablanca! That roof tripped me up for some time, before I just got the balls to go for it (with that lovely, small, blind-placed gear in the huge flexing flake).




A #3 Camalot is small?

Top
#13930 - 01/06/05 08:43 PM Re: Route recommendations - update [Re: dalguard]
GOclimb Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/26/01
Posts: 2359
Loc: Boston
Quote:

There's a difference between TR rehearsing a lead and having partners who lead harder than you do. I've never intentionally rehearsed a lead but by the time I was starting to lead 5.9s I had already been on all the best candidates and most of them I'd been on repeatedly. Ant's Line and MF are classics and I can't tell you how many times I followed them before I led them.




With all due respect, Dawn, I don't buy it. Unless you think that having TRed a line qualifies it as a "best candidate", the climbs I would choose as first onsight leads to try at a grade are not necessarily the same ones I'd be choosing to follow a stronger climber on.

Let's look at your example of 5.9. My first lead at that grade in the Gunks was Dirty Gertie. It's only a mediocre climb, so the chances of my having TRed it were small (I hadn't). But it's a great first lead at the grade. Sufficient gear, good stances, a distinct crux, short, and easy to maintain contact with your belayer througout.

Honestly, I think it's just a matter of preference/opinion. If, like Steven, you think that challenging yourself at a new lead level is best done on a climb you have wired, fine, but it's only that predisposition that makes those climbs such excellent firsts for you. But if you prefer doing new climbs whether you're on lead or following, those new climbs will just naturally seem preferable, as they do to me.

GO

Top
#13931 - 01/06/05 10:04 PM Re: Route recommendations - update [Re: GOclimb]
dalguard Offline
veteran

Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 1515
Loc: CT
I suspect you have no idea how much climbing I've done at the Gunks. There are no, and I mean no, 5.9G routes I haven't already followed. And I'm not going to refuse to follow my partners on what they want to do because I'm "saving it for the onsight."

When I was breaking into 7's and 8's I led almost all of them onsight because my partners were mostly leading 9s and 10s and I was new to the Gunks. If my partner wanted to do a 7 or 8, he pointed me at it and I led it. But if he wanted to do a 9 or a 10, he led it and I followed. I should have gotten new partners, huh? The inconsiderate selfish bastards who wanted to challenge themselves on classic routes at their own leading limit and expected me to belay and follow them. Damn them.

I haven't been on Simple Suff yet. Twice someone I was with was on the verge of leading it (one actually backed off) and both times I cringed because it's the one 5.10G I've never been on. But I wouldn't have said no to them over it.

P.S. Yes, I've followed Dirty Gerdie.

P.P.S. I don't think you've understood my point which is that I don't *know* which 9s are good firsts because my perception of them is too skewed. I have never, ever said that you should start with a rehearsed route.


Edited by dalguard (01/06/05 10:07 PM)

Top
#13932 - 01/06/05 10:33 PM Re: Route recommendations - update [Re: dalguard]
Mike Rawdon Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/29/99
Posts: 4276
Loc: Poughkeepsie
Quote:

I have never, ever said that you should start with a rehearsed route.




No, that was me who said that. Yes, it is purely a matter of personal preference. But I get twice the satisfaction this way: I get the joy of a "First 5.x lead" (Woo-hoo, let's go have a beer to celebrate!) and not too much later the joy of a "First 5.x onsight" (Woo-hoo, let's go have a beer to celebrate!)

So of course I'm having twice as much beer, I mean fun.

PS How can anyone NOT have TR'ed Dirty Gertie???

Top
#13933 - 01/06/05 10:44 PM Re: Route recommendations - update [Re: Mike Rawdon]
dalguard Offline
veteran

Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 1515
Loc: CT
I just rememberd that my first ever sucessful 5.9 lead at the Gunks was, in fact, an onsight. Therefore, the best 5.9 for breaking into the grade is . . . . CCK Direct.

My first 5.9 *attempt* was also an onsight. Worst 5.9 for breaking into the grade is . . . Honky Tonk Woman. You can figure out why I hadn't followed that one before. Still haven't.

Top
#13934 - 01/07/05 12:02 AM Re: Route recommendations - update [Re: Mike Rawdon]
Julie Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 01/16/00
Posts: 2090
Loc: SoCal
PS How can anyone NOT have TR'ed Dirty Gertie???
Actually, this falls between the catagories of "everyone does it differently" and "partners affect your choices" for me ... Scott hates toproping. I've followed him on Dirty Gertie, but we would never have climbed it otherwise. And there are many routes he won't ever climb, because he can't (or won't) lead them, which has affected my list of things as well ....

Top
#13935 - 01/07/05 03:47 AM Re: Route recommendations - update [Re: GOclimb]
Steven Cherry Offline

veteran

Registered: 12/23/99
Posts: 1300
Loc: New York, N.Y.
If, like Steven, you think that challenging yourself at a new lead level is best done on a climb you have wired, fine, but it's only that predisposition that makes those climbs such excellent firsts for you.

Huh? Unless this refers to some other Steven, this is 180 degrees off. I'm with GOclimb -- just about every hard lead I've done has been an onsight, and just about every climb breaking into every grade has been an onsight attempt.

Unlike Dawn, I do refuse to follow stuff in order to save it for an onsight attempt, and I'm surely one of the few who's first leads of Bonnie's, Ants Line, Retribution, and Criss Cross were all onsight attempts (and all one-fall failures; through 5.8 I pretty much got them all; after that, not so much).

Oddly, my first successful onsight at 5.9 was The Spring p1 (as I recall, the gear was fine) and my second was Roseland (a terrible choice for breaking into the grade only because it's so damned hard, it's certainly safe enough).

The criteria for breaking into the grade have mostly to do with gear: it should be fairly abundant, and relatively easy or at least straightforward at the crux. Likely falls should be safe. How hard is less important, but it shouldn't qualify as a testpiece.

Top
#13936 - 01/07/05 05:13 AM Re: Route recommendations - update [Re: Steven Cherry]
strat Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 04/30/01
Posts: 4242
Simply put, leaving Peter's Kill routes out of the route recommendations does a dis-service to the readership of this site.

Top
#13937 - 01/07/05 05:25 AM Re: Route recommendations - update [Re: Steven Cherry]
pedestrian Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/05/02
Posts: 2244
Loc: a heavily fortified bunker!
I have yet to see any 5.9 Gunks climb that makes a good breaking into the grade climb. Not counting Three Doves, which is an 8+ in some books, my first and second (and only so far) successful 5.9 onsights were Triangle and Roseland, respectively. Triangle turned out to be a horrible choice because the crux gear is so bad. Roseland I think is debatable for that category - there's a frightful pump factor, but the gear and the moves are very straightforward.

The problem with breaking into 5.9 is that the list of G-rated 5.9's in the Gunks, other than one-move wonders, is very very short. (Dirty-Gerdie is also a two-move wonder and an 8+ in some books. Certainly not a plug'n'chug primer.) Roseland is at least on that list and makes a good (albeit in your face) introduction to solid 5.9.

Top
#13938 - 01/07/05 12:04 PM Re: Route recommendations - update [Re: Steven Cherry]
GOclimb Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/26/01
Posts: 2359
Loc: Boston
Steven, my bad - I meant to write Mike (R). Early senility setting in, no doubt.

Anyhow, thanks for the confirmation.

GO

Top
#13939 - 01/07/05 12:12 PM Re: Route recommendations - update [Re: dalguard]
GOclimb Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/26/01
Posts: 2359
Loc: Boston
Wow, dawn, you really have climbed a lot at the Gunks. You're right, I'd no idea. I would like to be able to say the same - but given how far away I live, it'll take many years.

Still, to be honest, I don't really understand how someone can be *too* familiar with all the hundreds of climbs at the Gunks to be able to opine on them for others.

Anyway, sounds like your breaking into the grade 5.10 is all ligned up for you. If you're ever in need a belay on Simple Suff, feel free to give a shout (though if handwarmers are involved, I dunno, yeesh, you're nuts!)

GO

Top
#13940 - 01/07/05 01:09 PM Re: Route recommendations - update [Re: GOclimb]
crackers Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 03/21/01
Posts: 3424
Loc: pdx
I personally don't think simple suff is a good breaking into the grade 10. Basically, the gear for the first two or three moves (thats for me, mr tall) isn't the greatest. Why psyche yourself out?

Top
#13941 - 01/07/05 02:22 PM Re: Route recommendations - update [Re: pedestrian]
yorick Offline
old hand

Registered: 11/15/02
Posts: 1041
Loc: hamlet\'s hand
Quote:

I have yet to see any 5.9 Gunks climb that makes a good breaking into the grade climb.




both Groovy and Bonnie's are perfectly good breaking into 9s with pretty excellent gear (they're not 8+, even by T-Wall standards)...you might have to work a little to get the gear, but isn't that one of the distinguishing characteristics of gunks 9s?...and for that matter, the Spring and Wasp count as well...

so does Golden Dream...
_________________________
Shongum ain\'t Indian,
it\'s Shawank-unk.

Top
#13942 - 01/07/05 02:54 PM Re: Route recommendations - update [Re: yorick]
dalguard Offline
veteran

Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 1515
Loc: CT
Quote:

both Groovy and Bonnie's are perfectly good breaking into 9s


Or would be if they weren't 8s.

Top
#13943 - 01/07/05 03:01 PM Re: Route recommendations - update [Re: GOclimb]
dalguard Offline
veteran

Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 1515
Loc: CT
Quote:

Still, to be honest, I don't really understand how someone can be *too* familiar with all the hundreds of climbs at the Gunks to be able to opine on them for others.


I suppose because I was assuming the attempts would be onsights. The reason I was assuming this is not because I'm such a purist as Steven, although I do enjoy the opportunity to try something new when I get the chance (and Steven, half of those 9s I didn't get to onsight were your fault, don't forget). No, the reason I assumed onsights is because if you've already climbed all these routes like I have, why would you be coming to gunks.com looking for recommendations? These lists are for people who haven't had a chance to preview every route in the grade before they pick one to try.

Top
#13944 - 01/07/05 03:18 PM Re: Route recommendations - update [Re: strat]
Mike Rawdon Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/29/99
Posts: 4276
Loc: Poughkeepsie
Quote:

Simply put, leaving Peter's Kill routes out of the route recommendations does a dis-service to the readership of this site.




And what are we to do about Lost City? Lost City Crack is a good "breaking into" 5.10.

Top
#13945 - 01/07/05 03:51 PM Re: Route recommendations - update [Re: Mike Rawdon]
MarcC Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/10/00
Posts: 3532
Quote:

Quote:

Simply put, leaving Peter's Kill routes out of the route recommendations does a dis-service to the readership of this site.




And what are we to do about Lost City? Lost City Crack is a good "breaking into" 5.10.



Uh, continue to ignore it since, by consensus, it isn't in any guide. Peterskill otoh has a published guide, so it's fair game and should be included in the lists/discussions here.
_________________________
- Marc

Top
#13946 - 01/07/05 03:52 PM Re: Route recommendations - update [Re: dalguard]
pedestrian Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/05/02
Posts: 2244
Loc: a heavily fortified bunker!
Quote:

Or would be if they weren't 8s.




There, Dawn gets it! If I'm gonna break into 9 (and so far I've been doing so with about a 50/50 split between onsight/redpoint attempts, and I haven't yet TR'ed or followed many of the classic 9's), I want to climb something that leaves me feelilng like I just climbed a 9. Hence the Roseland recommendation. Three Doves, on the other hand left me feeling like I just climbed a 5.6 with a couple of runout 8+ moves thrown in for spice.

I'll have to try Bonnie's (Direct, perhaps!) and Groovy. I haven't been on either, yet.

Top
#13947 - 01/07/05 06:06 PM Re: Route recommendations - update [Re: pedestrian]
Coppertone Offline
old hand

Registered: 08/17/00
Posts: 1055
Loc: Newtown, CT
I think that 5.9 is the big secret at the Gunks. Once you have "broken in" to the grade there are so many great climbs. Keep on Strutin, Face to Face, No Glow, CCK Direct, Insulation, Protor Silex, Proctoscope, Grim Ace Face, The Spring, Arts Route, Comando Rave, Apoplexy, Pink Laurel, MF, Higher Stannard, just to mention a bunch at the trapps alone. So go do Ants Line and Dirty Girdie, get all broken in and then get ready for some real fun.

Top
#13948 - 01/07/05 06:22 PM Re: Route recommendations - update [Re: dalguard]
yorick Offline
old hand

Registered: 11/15/02
Posts: 1041
Loc: hamlet\'s hand



Or would be if they weren't 8s.




in what guide are they 8s?...respectively, groovy and bonnie's are both 9s in the red guide, 9s in the black guide, 8+ in swain 3rd edition, 9-and 8+ in the fat select guide, 9- in the thin select...swain tends to downgrade based on height, though i'm not sure if that's much of a factor on these routes...he calls bonnie's direct 9+...in the black guide it's 10-, and 9 in both selects...

whatever one's feelings are about the grade on groovy and bonnie's, imo, a great way of working into the 9s via cornerish routes is by leading boldville, airy aria, groovy, bonnie's, the spring, ant's line, and roseland in roughly that order, because they involve increasingly technical stemming and gear work as you climb through the list...

finish that list, and you're pertinere ready for simple suff, retribution, nosedive, and birdcage...
_________________________
Shongum ain\'t Indian,
it\'s Shawank-unk.

Top
#13949 - 01/07/05 06:37 PM Re: Route recommendations - update [Re: Steven Cherry]
CrackBoy Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 2435
Loc: Republic of Davis
I'm surely one of the few who's first leads of Bonnie's, Ants Line, Retribution, and Criss Cross were all onsight attempts (and all one-fall failures; through 5.8 I pretty much got them all; after that, not so much).

well add one more to the list of a few. all my first leads of these were onsight attempts. also add to that list roseland, MF p1 apolexy

i hate top roping at the gunks so unless i followed mike up it which at the harder grades was less likely, it was an onisight attept for me.

i think ants line is a great breaking into the grade. you can pretty much always have good gear if you want it and can put it in above your head if you get freaked out except for the pulling of the little rooflet but you only really have to get even with your gear to throw something in, my first nine was either roseland or maria direct, can't remember which came first
_________________________
Just Call me Mr. Enthusiasm

Top
#13950 - 01/07/05 06:42 PM Re: Route recommendations - update [Re: Mike Rawdon]
yorick Offline
old hand

Registered: 11/15/02
Posts: 1041
Loc: hamlet\'s hand
Quote:

And what are we to do about Lost City? Lost City Crack is a good "breaking into" 5.10.




so true, but lost city's an official backcrag...

like marc said, we have a published guide to peter's kill...
_________________________
Shongum ain\'t Indian,
it\'s Shawank-unk.

Top
#13951 - 01/07/05 09:48 PM Re: Route recommendations - update [Re: yorick]
rg@ofmc Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 12/25/99
Posts: 2468
Loc: Poughkeepsie, NY
I think this enterprise has gotten pretty silly. It seems to be addressed to climbers who want adventure...but god forbid not too much. It reminds me of a friend in middle school who started taking karate lessons and used to say, "ok, hit me---but slow!" Now we have to take, say, the 5.9's, which already appear in guidebooks decorated with protection ratings, pluses and minuses, stars, and what next---gps coordinates---and distribute them further into non-mutually exclusive classes that somehow convey even more than the pluses and minuses and PG's and R's. Who is the audience for all this stuff? How much information do they need before they leave the safety of the ground? Will there ever be enough? Have they developed such a refined palate that a touch of lichen or a wobbly flake ruins the meal? Can they actually climb anything without pages of beta, or are they just human climbing computers waiting to be fed the proper program so that they can "execute" the climb?

I can see the idea of "classics" (which is not the same as "must-do's") and "hidden gems," but forget the testpieces and breaking into the grades. You've already got a protection rating, so you don't have to launch unawares into an X-rated horror show. So grab your rack and go up there and see what awaits you. You'll break into the grade just as well this way as with all the picky conflicting advice that shows up here. If you don't like the pro or the moves are too hard, come down, try something else, and go back when you're a little better. Maybe go back a bunch of times. Or maybe never. Its all climbing. Break the beta addiction and climb free!

Top
#13952 - 01/07/05 09:55 PM Re: Route recommendations - update [Re: rg@ofmc]
dalguard Offline
veteran

Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 1515
Loc: CT
Quote:

Who is the audience for all this stuff?


Us mostly. Just to talk. We talk about ratings at the gym too. It's what climbers talk about.

Now do you really think The Spring P1 is easier than Ant's Line and should come first? The Spring makes me nervous but maybe I should give it a go.

Top
#13953 - 01/07/05 10:11 PM Re: Route recommendations - update [Re: dalguard]
rg@ofmc Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 12/25/99
Posts: 2468
Loc: Poughkeepsie, NY
Quote:

Us mostly. Just to talk. We talk about ratings at the gym too. It's what climbers talk about.




That's cool. Far be it from me to ever complain about talking...

Top
#13954 - 01/08/05 02:51 PM Re: Route recommendations - update [Re: rg@ofmc]
Steven Cherry Offline

veteran

Registered: 12/23/99
Posts: 1300
Loc: New York, N.Y.
That's cool. Far be it from me to ever complain about talking...

Good, because you're probably going to hate the next idea I had, which is "X is good training for Y". E.g., Strictly is good training for Son of Easy O (p2), something the Swain guide even mentions. The Spring is good training for Simple Suff.

Top
#13955 - 01/08/05 10:38 PM Re: Route recommendations - update [Re: Steven Cherry]
talus Offline
veteran

Registered: 08/23/04
Posts: 1259
blue streak
_________________________
John Okner Photography

Top
#13956 - 01/10/05 01:49 PM Re: Route recommendations - update [Re: Mike Rawdon]
edk Offline
addict

Registered: 05/06/02
Posts: 441
Loc: allentown, NJ
Quote:



I understand what you mean. For years I have scratched my head every time someone asks, "What's a good first 5.x to lead?". The implication being that they are going to onsight an unknown pitch for their first experience leading at a new grade. I can't think of a better way (well, OK, I suppose I could ) to run into trouble than to pile unprecedented difficulty on top of unknown climbing. Now I know there are people who do this, and they are happy falling their way into each new grade, but that's certainly not been my style. So when someone asks, "What's a good first 5.x to lead?" my answer is, "The one you know really, really well". Lead half a dozen 5.x's before you ever try to onsight at that level. IMO of course; YMMV.




Not the advice I would give them. If someone wants to break into teh grade with an onsight then by all means - Its a great & heady experiance. I'm not the Gunks police and I dont pretend I know waht is best for others.

Also simply because someone onsights doesn't mean they are falling thier way up something. I would rather try the onsight into an unknown grade then TR or follow a route to death before leading it. Thats MY style. Theory being that If you can lead, have lead solidly at the grade below the one you are approaching, have led a testpiece in the lower grade you can most likely lead the next level -- AND gain a real sweet experaince in the process.

<shrug> attitude like this are what make me keep my mouth shut... most of the time.</shrug>

ed

Top
#13957 - 01/10/05 03:42 PM Re: Route recommendations - update [Re: edk]
Mike Rawdon Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/29/99
Posts: 4276
Loc: Poughkeepsie
Quote:

Quote:



I understand what you mean. For years I have scratched my head every time someone asks, "What's a good first 5.x to lead?". The implication being that they are going to onsight an unknown pitch for their first experience leading at a new grade. I can't think of a better way (well, OK, I suppose I could ) to run into trouble than to pile unprecedented difficulty on top of unknown climbing. Now I know there are people who do this, and they are happy falling their way into each new grade, but that's certainly not been my style. So when someone asks, "What's a good first 5.x to lead?" my answer is, "The one you know really, really well". Lead half a dozen 5.x's before you ever try to onsight at that level. IMO of course; YMMV.




Not the advice I would give them. If someone wants to break into teh grade with an onsight then by all means - Its a great & heady experiance. I'm not the Gunks police and I dont pretend I know waht is best for others.

Also simply because someone onsights doesn't mean they are falling thier way up something. I would rather try the onsight into an unknown grade then TR or follow a route to death before leading it. Thats MY style. Theory being that If you can lead, have lead solidly at the grade below the one you are approaching, have led a testpiece in the lower grade you can most likely lead the next level -- AND gain a real sweet experaince in the process.

<shrug> attitude like this are what make me keep my mouth shut... most of the time.</shrug>

ed




You DID read this part of my post, right?

"IMO of course; YMMV."

Top
#13958 - 01/10/05 05:22 PM Re: Route recommendations - update [Re: Mike Rawdon]
edk Offline
addict

Registered: 05/06/02
Posts: 441
Loc: allentown, NJ
Quote:



You DID read this part of my post, right?

"IMO of course; YMMV."





Of course I did. And Mike, I hold you AND your style inthe highest regard..... But such standard discalimers as a way of indemnifying oneself should not discourage responses right?

Top
#13959 - 01/10/05 06:03 PM Re: Route recommendations - update [Re: edk]
Julie Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 01/16/00
Posts: 2090
Loc: SoCal
I would rather try the onsight into an unknown grade then TR or follow a route to death before leading it. Thats MY style. Theory being that If you can lead, have lead solidly at the grade below the one you are approaching, have led a testpiece in the lower grade you can most likely lead the next level -- AND gain a real sweet experaince in the process.

Seems to me the real issue here is the distinction between what you want for a breaking-into-grade experience, versus what you'd recommend for others.

You may like to try to onsight while breaking into a new grade, but your recommendations to others should really take their style, desires, even ability level (not everyone is incredibly solid at grade-1 when they try the next grade) into account.

Top
#13960 - 01/11/05 02:48 AM Re: Route recommendations - update [Re: Julie]
hangdog Offline
stranger

Registered: 12/30/04
Posts: 24
Loc: The Gunks
The concept of listing " breaking into the grade " one would assume that its an onsight. If your TRing and following people at that grade why would you need the beta unless you want a onsight. I think it a fairly useful concept for people like me who don't have partners who climb harder and want to be assured its G with clean falls. Also useful for people who have TR'd at the grade and now want to try an onsight. I assume the route listing isn't meant to instruct people how to move through the grades but to offer some relativly safe options.

Top
#13961 - 01/11/05 06:12 PM Re: Route recommendations - update [Re: hangdog]
caver Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 01/11/03
Posts: 260
Loc: High Falls
In the spirit of what I think Mike is saying, I'll relate one of my own experiences.....Several years ago I lead Apoplexy onsight. Some would say 'that's not my first choice for breaking into the grade' yea, I may have seen a few folks on it as I worked through the other popular Uber fall classics-Horsemen, Rhodo, Laurel. I had fought my way up some 5.8 testpieces (un beknownst to me at the time) like P2 of Son of Easy O, Double Crack, Snooky's etc. One warm sultry evening in July as it was getting dark, I was watching my freinds TR Laurel, feeling a lack of challenge here, I got on Apoplexy while the 'Tour-ons' gawked. With sweat dripping into my eyes, arms giving out at each gear placement and yelling 'take!' at the second OH. When I made it to the achor I was ecstatic to say the least. Well ok, maybe it wasn't 'clean' but it was exciting and opened the door to other 5.9s. This past fall I revisited Apoplexy and lead it cleanly partly because of prior knowledge and partly because I had challenged myself with other nines that summer. So I say challenge yourself if you want to advance to harder grades. Wheather it be 5.4 or 5.14!

Top
#13962 - 01/11/05 08:54 PM Re: Route recommendations - update [Re: caver]
Julie Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 01/16/00
Posts: 2090
Loc: SoCal
I think we need to review the definition of an onsight.

Top
#13963 - 01/11/05 09:05 PM Re: Route recommendations - update [Re: caver]
MarcC Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/10/00
Posts: 3532
Quote:

Several years ago I lead Apoplexy onsight. <snip>With sweat dripping into my eyes, arms giving out at each gear placement and yelling 'take!' at the second OH. When I made it to the achor I was ecstatic to say the least. Well ok, maybe it wasn't 'clean'...




Onsight = Bottom to top, no falls, no aid, with no prior knowledge of the moves.

Take = A0

Clean = only nuts and/or cams for pro
_________________________
- Marc

Top
#13964 - 01/11/05 09:41 PM Re: Route recommendations - update [Re: MarcC]
dalguard Offline
veteran

Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 1515
Loc: CT
I think it depends on whether you're using it as a verb or an adjective. To onsight something is to lead it cleanly without prior knowledge. But to lead something onsight, I don't know. His phrasing didn't bother me. I knew what he meant. IMO he gets more credit for doing it than for describing it minutely enough to please the ethics police (she says, never having had the balls to lead Apoplexy, onsight or not).

Top
#13965 - 01/11/05 09:44 PM Re: Route recommendations - update [Re: Julie]
quanto_the_mad Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/14/02
Posts: 2628
Loc: brooklyn
I think we need to review the definition of an onsight.

flashed = climbed it
onsighted = climbed it
redpointed = climbed it
hangdogged = climbed it
aided = climbed it
flailed = climbed it
whimpered like a child, cursed like a sailor, pulled gear, stepped on bolts = climbed it
bailed = didn't climb it

that's all that really matters isn't it?
_________________________


Top
#13966 - 01/11/05 10:00 PM Re: Route recommendations - update [Re: dalguard]
Julie Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 01/16/00
Posts: 2090
Loc: SoCal
It's not the ethics police I'm worried about, I'm trying to get at common terminology. In one post we have

"why would you need the beta unless you want a onsight."

... and in the next, a description of an "onsight" that included a hang ("onsight attempt" fine, "onsight", sorry but no)

... after we'd just debated whether "breaking into a grade" was synonymous with, or should be, or should include, onsighting.

So to get back to the "route recommendations" idea: if we're giving recommendations for particular purposes (breaking into a grade, onsighting), we should at least be working under the same assumptions of what those verbs actually mean.

Top
#13967 - 01/11/05 10:21 PM Re: Route recommendations - update [Re: quanto_the_mad]
empicard Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/29/01
Posts: 2955
Loc: LI, NY
Quote:

I think we need to review the definition of an onsight.

flashed = climbed it
onsighted = climbed it
redpointed = climbed it
hangdogged = climbed it
aided = climbed it
flailed = climbed it
whimpered like a child, cursed like a sailor, pulled gear, stepped on bolts = climbed it
bailed = didn't climb it

that's all that really matters isn't it?



HELL YEA.
just get up the fucker.

_________________________
tOOthless

Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.

Top
#13968 - 01/11/05 10:38 PM Re: Route recommendations - update [Re: caver]
Coppertone Offline
old hand

Registered: 08/17/00
Posts: 1055
Loc: Newtown, CT
Quote:

In the spirit of what I think Mike is saying, I'll relate one of my own experiences.....Several years ago I lead Apoplexy onsight.




Should have said attempted to lead Apolplexy onsight.
I have one friend who loves onsighting climbs on his third try. He just likes to forget about the two previous attempts.

Top
#13969 - 01/11/05 10:38 PM Re: Route recommendations - update [Re: empicard]
Frank Florence Offline
addict

Registered: 01/05/00
Posts: 528
Loc: moved to Bend
I think RG gave a pretty good definition of an onsight.

Quote:

Break the beta addiction and climb free!



Top
#13970 - 01/12/05 12:33 AM Re: Route recommendations - update [Re: Julie]
hangdog Offline
stranger

Registered: 12/30/04
Posts: 24
Loc: The Gunks
"It's not the ethics police I'm worried about, I'm trying to get at common terminology. In one post we have

why would you need the beta unless you want a onsight."

I thought it was clear that I was refering to the climb being at the grade and protectable. If this info disqualifies it from being an onsight then a peek at the guide book...........Would be out. I thought the point of this thread was to reccomend routes in given catagories.


Edited by hangdog (01/12/05 12:35 AM)

Top
#13971 - 01/12/05 04:01 AM Re: Route recommendations - update [Re: hangdog]
Steven Cherry Offline

veteran

Registered: 12/23/99
Posts: 1300
Loc: New York, N.Y.
Hangdog, your last post makes this less clear, rather than more. I was with Dawn, more or less, that in the context of the thread, the important thing was whether the lead was an onsight attempt, not whether it was successful. (I was, though still brought up short, since the first sentence implied that the attempt was successful.)

So let's just agree that the original wording was a bit sloppy, and move on, okay?

Top
#13972 - 01/12/05 04:03 AM Re: Route recommendations - update [Re: Steven Cherry]
Steven Cherry Offline

veteran

Registered: 12/23/99
Posts: 1300
Loc: New York, N.Y.
And speaking of moving on, Hangdog's general reasoning was the same as mine: the breaking-into-the-grade list mainly has onsight attempts in mind, since, as was said, if you've been on the route, you don't really need a website to tell you if it's a good lead for you to try.

Top
#13973 - 01/12/05 02:43 PM Re: Route recommendations - update [Re: Steven Cherry]
Allenperry Offline
member

Registered: 02/11/03
Posts: 195
Loc: Reading, Pennsylvania
The guy goes by "Hangdog" and some feel the need to criticize because he says he had to yell take when he did his "onsight". Nothing like a minor etymological infraction to flush out the anal retentive. You know who you are.

Probably should have said "lexicological"
_________________________
Perry

Top
#13974 - 01/12/05 02:45 PM Re: Route recommendations - update [Re: Steven Cherry]
ryanclan Offline
addict

Registered: 01/09/00
Posts: 578
Loc: NoCal
Quote:

if you've been on the route, you don't really need a website to tell you if it's a good lead for you to try.




Oh, I wholeheartedly disagree with this! Seconding often scares me off a route rather than encourages me to lead it. I didn't lead Ant's Line for years because I thought I wasn't strong enough to lead it and the stemming terrified me. Then, when I lead it and got to the crux, I did it completely different than I would have as a second. So, it became an entirely different climb for me (not because of caution, but because of experience in technique). And, last season, I thought I might lead MF and then TR'ed it. No way was I ready for that run out section after the corner (bit that's my fraidy-cat talkin). I couldn't climb through it fast enough on TR (because I was thinking as a leader).

Now my palms are all sweaty


Edited by ryanclan (01/12/05 07:23 PM)

Top
#13975 - 01/12/05 03:54 PM Re: Route recommendations - update [Re: ryanclan]
PeteG Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 03/30/00
Posts: 300
Loc: Saranac Lake, NY
Quote:

Then, when I got to the crux, I did it completely different than I would have as a second. So, it became an entirely different climb for me,...



Similarly, I have on several occasions seconded a route that I had previously led onsight and thought the route was harder than I remembered it. Two that come to mind are Son of Easy O, and Ye Gods and Little Fishes (Seneca). I had flashed both of these on lead, then struggled as a second. I think I'm a little careless about my technique when seconding and end up in weird or strenuous positions.

Top
#13976 - 01/12/05 04:08 PM Re: Route recommendations - update [Re: ryanclan]
Julie Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 01/16/00
Posts: 2090
Loc: SoCal
Kathy, that's a really, really good point. Things are often different on 2nd than on lead. I could add more than a few examples, but that's an important distinction when you're breaking into the grade. When you've been following at that grade without thinking you'd ever lead, you don't second things with a leader's eyes ...

Allen, let me be ever so much more anal and point out that the guy who hung on his onsight attempt was Coppertone, not Hangdog.

Top
#13977 - 01/12/05 05:16 PM Re: Route recommendations - update [Re: Julie]
pitfall Offline
old hand

Registered: 11/01/00
Posts: 1165
Loc: Albany
Things may be different as a second but give me a break about ant's line. From the ground you can see there's places to put gear in every 3 feet. That's as crazy as being hesitant to lead shockley's.
_________________________

Top
#13978 - 01/12/05 05:30 PM Re: Route recommendations - update [Re: pitfall]
pedestrian Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/05/02
Posts: 2244
Loc: a heavily fortified bunker!
Quote:

That's as crazy as being hesitant to lead shockley's.




Fight! Fight! Fight!

Top
#13979 - 01/12/05 07:01 PM Re: Route recommendations - update [Re: Julie]
Allenperry Offline
member

Registered: 02/11/03
Posts: 195
Loc: Reading, Pennsylvania
Quote:

Kathy, that's a really, really good point. Things are often different on 2nd than on lead. I could add more than a few examples, but that's an important distinction when you're breaking into the grade. When you've been following at that grade without thinking you'd ever lead, you don't second things with a leader's eyes ...

Allen, let me be ever so much more anal and point out that the guy who hung on his onsight attempt was Coppertone, not Hangdog.




I stand corrected, about who may have said what (actually I think it was "caver". The anal part?, well...I think everyone knows the answer to that

As for beaking into the grade. I think seconding a few routes at the new level is a good idea. I've never thought of seconding as harder than leading, just the opposite. It's probably such an individual thing so as to make this whole discussion rather pointless anyway. Kind of like talking about what diet works for you.


Edited by Allenperry (01/12/05 07:10 PM)
_________________________
Perry

Top
#13980 - 01/12/05 07:04 PM Re: Route recommendations - update [Re: Julie]
Coppertone Offline
old hand

Registered: 08/17/00
Posts: 1055
Loc: Newtown, CT
Quote:


Allen, let me be ever so much more anal and point out that the guy who hung on his onsight attempt was Coppertone, not Hangdog.



Being even more anal, that was not me that hung on said onsight attempt, I did not even bring it up, although I did onsight Aploplexy a long time ago.

Top
#13981 - 01/12/05 08:14 PM Re: Route recommendations - update [Re: Coppertone]
dalguard Offline
veteran

Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 1515
Loc: CT
The guy who said it was a relative newcomer named Caver who's probably learned better than to ever post again . . .

Top
#13982 - 01/12/05 09:04 PM Re: Route recommendations - update [Re: pitfall]
ryanclan Offline
addict

Registered: 01/09/00
Posts: 578
Loc: NoCal
Quote:

Things may be different as a second but give me a break about ant's line. From the ground you can see there's places to put gear in every 3 feet. That's as crazy as being hesitant to lead shockley's.




Ooo, I'm not hungry or I'd bite on that one.

Top
#13983 - 01/12/05 09:43 PM Re: Route recommendations - update [Re: ryanclan]
Timbo Offline
addict

Registered: 12/23/99
Posts: 694
Loc: Delaware
Welcome to Gunks.com...the only climbing forum/group where people who disagree can have a rational discussion w/o calling people names or flaming

Thanks Evan

T
_________________________

Top
#13984 - 01/13/05 03:50 AM Re: Route recommendations - update [Re: ryanclan]
Steven Cherry Offline

veteran

Registered: 12/23/99
Posts: 1300
Loc: New York, N.Y.
Quote:

Quote:

if you've been on the route, you don't really need a website to tell you if it's a good lead for you to try.




Oh, I wholeheartedly disagree with this! Seconding often scares me off a route rather than encourages me to lead it.




Well, you're disagreeing with something, I'm sure, but not the quoted sentence. Seconding should tell you if the crux can be safely and straightforwardly protected, if there are any runouts that are going to bother you, and if the climb is not especially difficult for the grade. That's about the most a short website description can provide!

Top
#13985 - 01/25/05 11:35 PM Re: Route recommendations - update [Re: Steven Cherry]
lillajag Offline
newbie

Registered: 08/08/01
Posts: 36
I'll be rude enough to depart from all discussion of language, rating and definitions of 'onsight' - I'll actually be so inconsistent to reply on the original posting ... here it goes Steven:

Hidden gems:
Galactic Hitchhikers, 5.9+. One-word says it all: WOW! Make sure you stay to the right of the bush 30ft up. The climb ain't over until you pass the 3rd 5.9 crux. If you're shorter than 5'8 or you don't want to stand on your #3 camalot, you may be out of luck clipping a crucial pin. In this case, you may opt to toprope it from the V-3 anchor. I'm 5'10, and I needed to dig out my biggest biner to be able to reach the clip. I added 2 * in my book.

Mona, 5.9. The book says G, but I'll put it at PG. The pro is better than it appears from ground, but that doesn't tell you anything. If 5.9 is your lead limit, stay away from this on a 'high-gravity' day. Bring your best detective skills; The Grand Tour of Hidden Holds is an appropriate nickname. The lack of lichen, spiders web and chalk gave it a * in my book.

In the current data base of Hidden gems, Revenge of the Relics is listed as a recommended 5.10. Unfortunately, its description is a copy of my suggestion for Le Plie. Any chance this could be corrected?


Test pieces:
Inside-Out, 5.6 (hah!): The best route to sandbag any 5.8 leader! Avoid the grungy chimney at the beginning by doing the 5.7 variation start. Bail by scrambling around the pillar on the south side and rap from the pine.

Trapped Like a Rat, 5.7. Just half a notch below Thin Slabs Direct as a top contender of 5.7 test piece. Mainly due to lack of exposure. The Swain variation is better than the Williams.


Top
#13986 - 01/26/05 03:37 PM Re: Route recommendations - update [Re: lillajag]
dalguard Offline
veteran

Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 1515
Loc: CT
What are the variations on Trapped Like a Rat? I can't think of more than one way to go on that route. Also, I have to disagree and put it way above Thin Slabs Direct. Thin Slabs Direct has only got one obstacle to surmount - a bit of pumpiness. TLR has three cruxes - the technical crux, the lead head crux, and the power crux.

Top
#13987 - 01/26/05 05:08 PM Re: Route recommendations - update [Re: dalguard]
Frank Florence Offline
addict

Registered: 01/05/00
Posts: 528
Loc: moved to Bend
A couple of years ago, there was a thread about Trapped like a Rat that, unfortunately, may have been purged. (It didn't show up when I searched for it.) My recollection is that some folks found it stiff for the grade (I was one) and others thought it came it about right at 5.7. The point was made that there are a couple of different ways of getting started. I remember making a brutish effort straight up at the beginning, which accounts for my opinion.

While I had a tough time getting started on TLR, that was nothing like the head game I had to contend with to finally lead Thin Slabs Direct. Manky iron does that to me. I used a couple of Screamers to clip into the fixed pins, but they're really garbage and the consequences of a fall combined with pulled or broken protection could be serious. So the test for me, in this proposed Test Piece, was to back off the pitch until I could lead it with very high confidence in my ability to do it without falling.

But as BrownDog might say, not that there's anything wrong with that.

Top
#13988 - 01/26/05 06:56 PM Re: Route recommendations - update [Re: Frank Florence]
dalguard Offline
veteran

Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 1515
Loc: CT
My confidence in manky pins is higher than it ought to be but sometimes the purpose of the pin is to provide enough confidence to allow you to move on. Thin Slabs Direct is very short and not that hard if you keep on moving.

What is "straight up" on TLR and what isn't? I guess I start a tiny bit to the right to get established under the bulgey rooflet, then move leftish to get around the bulgey rooflet then back right into the corner, but it has always seemed pretty straight up and I don't know what else you could do there.

Top
#13989 - 01/27/05 02:41 AM Re: Route recommendations - update [Re: dalguard]
pedestrian Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/05/02
Posts: 2244
Loc: a heavily fortified bunker!
Quote:

My confidence in manky pins is higher than it ought to be but sometimes the purpose of the pin is to provide enough confidence to allow you to move on. Thin Slabs Direct is very short and not that hard if you keep on moving.




Why give this kind of advice? TSD is long enough for a fall to be serious if you blow through the outer section without placing gear. But you can back up every one of those pins, except maybe one, with an Alien.

The beta, courtesy of Steven Cherry: heel hook to help your balance and take the weight off while placing gear. The other foot is on a hold while you do this, if you're tall like me. If you ain't got the gas to climb this and place proper protection, you ain't got the gas to climb 5.7!

Top
#13990 - 01/27/05 05:06 AM Re: Route recommendations - update [Re: pedestrian]
rg@ofmc Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 12/25/99
Posts: 2468
Loc: Poughkeepsie, NY
Quote:

My confidence in manky pins is higher than it ought to be....




Allow me to undermine it. I've had two manky pins blow on me. One at waist level in the Gunks popped out when I fell on it (with 30--40 feet of rope out; a very low fall factor), the other in Lumpy Ridge came out in my hands when I desperately grabbed it rather than fall onto a nut, at a time in the distant past when cams did not exist, nuts were brand new to Americans, and I had used them just a few times. (The nut held...)

Think of manky pins as micronuts and climb accordingly.

Top
#13991 - 01/27/05 03:43 PM Re: Route recommendations - update [Re: rg@ofmc]
dalguard Offline
veteran

Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 1515
Loc: CT
If you're going to misrepresent me, you might as well misquote me too. The qualifier "higher than it ought to be" implies that I know they're not really trustworthy, doesn't it?

I wouldn't advocate anyone do Thin Slabs Direct on nothing but the manky pins but I don't think you need to stop and back all of them up either. To bring Trapped Like a Rat back into the discussion (a route of much more interest to me), there are so many pins going over the roof it's silly to clip them all, especially since they're manky and worthless and the fall would be short anyway, but then it's silly to back them up too. What you should really do is just go. How many of them I clip says a lot about how I'm feeling that day but I rarely place an actual piece through the roof section because I know what I really need to do is keep moving and clipping a pin will boost me enough so I can do that.

Top
#13992 - 01/27/05 03:56 PM Re: Route recommendations - update [Re: dalguard]
pedestrian Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/05/02
Posts: 2244
Loc: a heavily fortified bunker!
Quote:

If you're going to misrepresent me, you might as well misquote me too. The qualifier "higher than it ought to be" implies that I know they're not really trustworthy, doesn't it?




Sorry Dawn, but in the immortal words of Spiro Agnew I stand by my misstatements. Your post wasn't very clear. It could have implied that you know they're not really trustworthy but you clip them anyway.

Quote:

I wouldn't advocate anyone do Thin Slabs Direct on nothing but the manky pins but I don't think you need to stop and back all of them up either.




There, at least, is something we can agree on. I'd say you need two pieces of gear after the initial lean-out-and-place.

It's a good challenge to at least stop and look at the situation, up there, and think about backing them up. When you get done, you'll be pumped. I've done the route twice, the first time just climbing fast and the second time tried to challenge myself on the gear.


Edited by pedestrian (01/27/05 04:00 PM)

Top
#13993 - 01/27/05 05:23 PM Re: Route recommendations - update [Re: dalguard]
Frank Florence Offline
addict

Registered: 01/05/00
Posts: 528
Loc: moved to Bend
Dawn,

As best I recall, the start I took to TLR involved tackling the crack right from the beginning, that is to say, treating the route as much as a crack climb, versus a face climb, as I could. If you came in from the right side, you probably did a couple of the initial moves differently than I did. Hey, in the congested Trapps, not only does that qualify as a variation, it's practically a new line!

Seriously, I don't mean to disparage your recommendation. I had to work hard to get started on the route and probably others will, too. Maybe it's as much a test of reading a route as it is making moves.

Top
#13994 - 01/27/05 06:25 PM Re: Route recommendations - update [Re: Frank Florence]
dalguard Offline
veteran

Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 1515
Loc: CT
I didn't feel like you were disparaging my recommendation. I just wanted to talk about Trapped Like a Rat. I think I'm the only one who ever climbs it and if anyone else actually did climb it and got my nut back, hey it's mine! But I'm assuming it will still be there waiting for me in the spring.

And of course I clip the manky pins! I clip everything. There was a great quote on r.c once about slinging sunbathing lizards. I've only led Thin Slabs Direct once and my memory isn't good enough to say how many, if any, of the pins I backed up. IIRC there were three and one of them looked better than the others and I'm really not sure I backed up any of them but I'd recommend that others do so.

Both routes are challenging for 5.7 but to me it seems that there are few 5.7s at the Gunks that aren't challenging. It's a tough grade at the Gunks. Best to skip through to 5.8.

Top
#13995 - 01/28/05 03:47 AM Re: Route recommendations - update [Re: dalguard]
hangdog Offline
stranger

Registered: 12/30/04
Posts: 24
Loc: The Gunks
I definetly had a tougher time with the 7's at the gunks than the 8's. Fewer truly G 7's make breaking into the grade harder. Maybe some of it was my attitude I expected the 8's to be challanging and the 7's to be a bit more casual, but never found it that way....go figure. The 7's only get easier once you feel solid at 8. As for 9 that a whole 'nother thing.....

Top
#13996 - 02/16/05 03:10 AM Re: Route recommendations - update [Re: hangdog]
MurphysLaw Offline
gumby

Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 2308
Loc: Hudson Valley, NY
Here's my $0.02 (from sunny Palm Harbor, FL!!!! )

Ants is way easier to potentially onsight than the Spring. Pumpy vs. technical, and gear every 3", not every 3' (that's only above the crux when it gets "runout" like that). There's no chance of getting suckered off line, and every piece of gear is as good as can be gotten w/ trad gear.

Boldville is fun, but awkward, I wouldn't wanna do that to break into 8's. That's what Snooky's and Arrow and Hyjecks are for.
(but NOT Annie Oh)
My first 8 was p1 of SoEO, so that's another contender for every category from Breaking In to Must Do to Classic.

Agreed big-time w/ Nerdom that Casablanca is the 5.8 testpiece (assuming we're calling Modern Times a 9, otherwise MT gets the nod, a no-brainer).
Hard to protect the crux (well), and reachy and pumpy, I had to use a heel-hook, just like on all the other 8's. NOT.

I think Roseland is pretty straighforward for breaking into 9's, it was one of my early 9 onsights, you can TR yerself up the corner until the very top.

Strangely enuff, I had an easier time (mentally - go figger) w/ the moves on WASP vs Sente, and they are 9 and 9- respectively. And PG vs SPORT.
Julie was kind enuff to share my WASP stupidity of climbing thru the crux, only to pro the sh!t out of the 5.4 roof that followed it (since I was thinking: damn, if this is hard and balancy now, and it ain't the even crux yet, then I'm really in for it when I get there! Silly boy. )

As for sometimes having an easier time leading something (even onsighting it) vs. following, I've had that happen numerous times.
I often find myself saying "I can't believe I led this" when I go back to stuff I'd led prior.

A course, other times ya hike 'em too.

Apoplexy was a tough onsite for me, and I was climbing well and had done a bunch of other 9's, so I hafta disagree with whomever says it is one for breaking into 9's. At least for me.
It'd be pretty easy to f' up around the flexy flake and become a member of Team AHHHH Ker-Splat, so I'd save that for more of a 'getting comfy at 9' or perhaps even kinda a testpiece.

I'm with the contingent that likes to break into a grade by onsighting something. (or at least attempting to).
NOT that there's anything wrong with any other way of doing so.

Whatever works for you, and gets you up the rock, and keeps yer ass offa the deck, it's all good.
_________________________
"Flailing?" "Flail on!"

Top
#13997 - 02/16/05 03:05 PM Re: Route recommendations - update [Re: MurphysLaw]
phil Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/12/01
Posts: 2627
Loc: Brooklyn, NY
I took a quick browse thru, and I didn’t see anyone even mention Millbrook.

Has that gone the way of Skytop also?

Westward Ha! 5.7 unt Again and Again 5.7



Edited by phil (02/16/05 03:06 PM)

Top
#13998 - 02/16/05 04:24 PM Re: Route recommendations - update [Re: talus]
talus Offline
veteran

Registered: 08/23/04
Posts: 1259
Quote:

must do
westward ha




phil you missed my post on pg 6 and pg9


Edited by talus (02/16/05 04:26 PM)
_________________________
John Okner Photography

Top
#13999 - 02/16/05 04:41 PM Re: Route recommendations - update [Re: talus]
phil Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/12/01
Posts: 2627
Loc: Brooklyn, NY
Quote:

Quote:

must do
westward ha




phil you missed my post on pg 6 and pg9





I figured I missed someone’s mention of Westward Ha

Way Mucho Sorry for that bro

Top
#14000 - 02/16/05 06:48 PM Re: Route recommendations - update [Re: phil]
Julie Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 01/16/00
Posts: 2090
Loc: SoCal
Phil (or anyone else) - tell me more about Again & Again?

Top
#14001 - 02/18/05 02:22 PM Re: Route recommendations - update [Re: Julie]
Dana Offline
addict

Registered: 07/13/00
Posts: 619
Trivia question: Anyone know where the name Westward Ha! came from?

Top
#14002 - 02/18/05 04:13 PM Re: Route recommendations - update [Re: Dana]
Frank Florence Offline
addict

Registered: 01/05/00
Posts: 528
Loc: moved to Bend
It's the title of a satirical travelogue by SJ Perelman, who also wrote The Road to Miltown (which could be another route name) and screenplay for variious Marx Brothers movies.

Top
#14003 - 02/18/05 04:31 PM Re: Route recommendations - update [Re: Frank Florence]
Dana Offline
addict

Registered: 07/13/00
Posts: 619
Right you are! Bonus questions: 1) Who was the Dick of Dick's Prick? 2) There is a 5.8 variation to the last pitch of Northern Pillar called Cemetary Gates. Where did this name come from? 3) Who did the first all nut ascent of Never Never Land? He also did not clip the bolt or the pins.

Top
#14004 - 02/18/05 05:31 PM Re: Route recommendations - update [Re: Dana]
MurphysLaw Offline
gumby

Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 2308
Loc: Hudson Valley, NY
1) Dick Hirschland. (sp?)

Dick's Prick is HARD.

Should be in the most sandbagged 5.6's list - it gave me pause, and I was only following it.
No good gear for a while, poor awkward (very non-Gunk's-like) holds, and then when you finally get some gear, you've already blown yer wad, since it's over so quick

"I'm sure that happens to *all* the routes...."
_________________________
"Flailing?" "Flail on!"

Top
#14005 - 02/18/05 05:55 PM Re: Route recommendations - update [Re: Dana]
oenophore Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/24/01
Posts: 5969
Loc: 212 land
2) There is a 5.8 variation to the last pitch of Northern Pillar called Cemetary Gates. Where did this name come from? 3) Who did the first all nut ascent of Never Never Land? He also did not clip the bolt or the pins.

2) A Llanberis route. (The Gunks route is Cemetery Wall.)
_________________________

Top
#14006 - 02/18/05 07:52 PM Re: Route recommendations - update [Re: oenophore]
rg@ofmc Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 12/25/99
Posts: 2468
Loc: Poughkeepsie, NY
Dave craft did the first free ascent of Never Never Land; Art Gran did the first ascent but used the bolt as an aid point. Dave's ascent occurred before nuts arrived in the U.S., so he most certainly did clip the bolt and pins.

I don't know who did the first all-nut ascent, but of course Stannard would be a good guess.

Top
#14007 - 02/18/05 08:21 PM Re: Route recommendations - update [Re: rg@ofmc]
MarcC Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/10/00
Posts: 3532
Quote:

I don't know who did the first all-nut ascent, but of course Stannard would be a good guess.



I'm 95% certain it was Stannard. The story that I was told was that John's belayer was poised in a runner's stance, facing downhill. There was a third person acting as spotter, watching John and directing the belayer when to let out rope. If Stannard were to fall, the spotter would yell 'run' to the belayer who would then lock the rope and take off downhill, as the highest nut was still too low to prevent groundfall from the crux unless a lot of rope was removed from the system.

Somewhere buried in the basement is the issue of The Eastern Trade where John listed all the FCA*'s that had taken place and the associated perpetrator. I should search for it. The only other one I specifically remember is Peter Rossi's first all-nut ascent of Arrow.

*FCA = first clean ascent
_________________________
- Marc

Top
#14008 - 02/18/05 09:30 PM Re: Route recommendations - update [Re: MarcC]
phlan Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/11/00
Posts: 2778
Loc: Gardiner, NY
wow, Peter Rossi! He moved back to New Paltz recently. He hasn't climbed for quite a few years... but I guess he used to allright...
_________________________
Support Your Local Farmer!

Top
#14009 - 02/18/05 10:41 PM Re: Route recommendations - update [Re: phlan]
rg@ofmc Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 12/25/99
Posts: 2468
Loc: Poughkeepsie, NY
Quote:

The only other one I specifically remember is Peter Rossi's first all-nut ascent of Arrow.




Stannard may not have done it first, but he did make a winter all-nut ascent of the Arrow in mountain boots...

Top
#14010 - 02/19/05 12:41 AM Re: Route recommendations - update [Re: rg@ofmc]
Mark Heyman Offline
old hand

Registered: 12/23/99
Posts: 1123
Loc: South Jersey (Pinelands)
Stannard may not have done it first, but he did make a winter all-nut ascent of the Arrow in mountain boots...

Spoken like..ah..oh never mind.

Top
#14011 - 02/19/05 01:33 AM Re: Route recommendations - update [Re: Mark Heyman]
Dana Offline
addict

Registered: 07/13/00
Posts: 619
Stannard did the first all nut ascent of Never Never Land, supposedly in symbolic protest against the piton Ivan Rezucha used on the FA of Star Action.

Top
#14012 - 02/19/05 02:07 AM Re: Route recommendations - update [Re: Dana]
Dana Offline
addict

Registered: 07/13/00
Posts: 619
1) There's a climb in the Near Trapps called L.P. What do those initials stand for? 2) What was the original name of the climb Swinging Cunt? (trick question) 3) Why did McCarthy and Williams call their Near Trapps climb Generation Gap? 4) Two first ascents in the 'Gunks have involved a well known author. Who is he? 5) There are two climbs in the 'Gunks that are named with boxing in mind. Which ones? 5) The climb Un-Appealing Ceiling was once known by another name. What was it? And aside from a climb at the 'Gunks, what else (hint: comedy) was once known by this name? 6) There is a climb called Glypnod. What is a glypnod? And finally, (this one isn't fair), what did John Stannard say when he first saw Friends?

Top
#14013 - 02/19/05 03:52 PM Re: Route recommendations - update [Re: Dana]
GeeVee Offline
Auto Reply

Registered: 11/14/00
Posts: 4403
Loc: Brooklyn, NY
No answers to your questions from me Dana, but looking at this thread it would seem to be a pretty good fit in an expanded (and permanent) route coverage section of the board, as Evan has proposed for his next round of upgrades. Even if people don't want beta on a route I'm sure no one could argue with the idea of being provided with a little trivia about what they're climbing.
_________________________
So long as you can boogie you ain't too old.

Top
#14014 - 02/22/05 02:59 PM Re: Route recommendations - update [Re: Dana]
browndog2 Offline
old hand

Registered: 04/24/01
Posts: 767
Loc: livin' on the edge
I only know the last one.
To paraphrase, something like "Courtney Cox is hot".
_________________________
(not that there's anything wrong with that...sorta)

Top
#14015 - 02/22/05 06:48 PM Re: Route recommendations - update [Re: browndog2]
nerdom Offline
Pooh-Bah *

Registered: 09/07/01
Posts: 2483
Loc: Davis Sq., MA
"L.P." stands for Lonely Penis.

edited to add: and the first pitch of L.P. is fun and worth doing. Second pitch looks cool, but I saw a 5-6 foot black snake slithering down it one day, so haven't been in a hurry to try it.


Edited by nerdom (02/22/05 06:50 PM)
_________________________
we're all living proof that nothing lasts

Top
#14016 - 02/22/05 10:22 PM Re: Route recommendations - update [Re: nerdom]
Dana Offline
addict

Registered: 07/13/00
Posts: 619
In the '72 guide the second pitch of L.P. is depicted as trending up and right. I tried that many years ago, and it was the loosest section of rock I've ever climbed on, anywhere. Is that what you mean? If so, go back, you'll be killed.

Top
#14017 - 02/23/05 03:40 AM Re: Route recommendations - update [Re: Dana]
hangdog Offline
stranger

Registered: 12/30/04
Posts: 24
Loc: The Gunks
Did the first pitch of LP last year and it was really good, but a bit scary...Thin in the begining (Hard moves for 8) and your first piece is about 18feet off the deck. Didn't even consider p2. .............Seems to me that this section of the cliff has some fairly stiff climbs for the grade and the pros not usually too closely spaced. Not quite that far down also did Moxie...now that was exciting!


Edited by hangdog (02/23/05 03:47 AM)

Top
Page 1 of 15 1 2 3 ... 14 15 >


Moderator:  Mike Rawdon, Steven Cherry 
Sponsored