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#14361 - 03/06/05 04:32 AM How useful are Micro-nuts for leading 5.9s and easier .10s?
apsmith Offline
stranger

Registered: 06/18/03
Posts: 4
Hi- This season i will be breaking into the .9s and easier .10s on lead.

I have been eyeing getting some micro-nuts. . . but i am also thinking that i might just be better off getting another green alien.

so my questions are-

1)how useful would micro-nuts be for leading .9s and easier 10s?

2) if they are useful then what would be the best to get for the gunks-
RPs?
HBs?
BD?
which sizes?

or what about a set of rock empire brassies for $30?
http://www.rockempire.com/catalog?category=cams#nuts

thanks

aaron


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#14362 - 03/06/05 02:51 PM Re: How useful are Micro-nuts for leading 5.9s and easier .10s? [Re: apsmith]
Arms Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 12/23/99
Posts: 1763
Loc: WV, near NRG and Seneca
I like HB Offsets. I only carry sizes smaller than my regular nuts.

You don't often need them but they're great when you do.

Also, they weigh practically nothing.
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Arms

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#14363 - 03/06/05 03:19 PM Re: How useful are Micro-nuts for leading 5.9s and easier .10s? [Re: apsmith]
dalguard Offline
veteran

Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 1515
Loc: CT
Those look like the Trango brassies which, let me tell you, aren't micro-nuts. Just cause they're brass . . . I got the Trango brassies off the net without seeing them in real life and was very disappointed. They're the size of regular nuts, only awkwardly shaped and the nuts slide down the cables and stick so you have to fiddle them back into place when you want to place them. These are definitely not the same thing as the little HBs, for instance.

Whether you need micro-nuts or not, I don't know. Depends whether you trust them when you place them, I guess. Although they weigh practically nothing, there's not much point in carrying them if you don't trust them. Some of the larger sizes are just a different shape of a reasonably sized nut but the tiny, tiny ones are only psuedo-gear.

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#14364 - 03/06/05 06:58 PM Re: How useful are Micro-nuts for leading 5.9s and easier .10s? [Re: apsmith]
rg@ofmc Online   content
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 12/25/99
Posts: 2472
Loc: Poughkeepsie, NY
As Arms says, you don't use 'em all the time, but they are definitely worth having along. I find I place them pretty regularly from 5.8 up, and in spots you wouldn't be able to place a micro cam. The best strategy is to use them for overhead protection with double ropes so that you don't pay any penalty if the high tiny pro pulls. Screamers are probably a good idea.

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#14365 - 03/06/05 08:40 PM Re: How useful are Micro-nuts for leading 5.9s and easier .10s? [Re: rg@ofmc]
paborden Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 07/18/03
Posts: 366
Loc: On the road...
I use mine all the time and carry a mixture of HB offsets and RPs. I have the BD ones as well, but find I don't use them nearly as much in the Gunks. Whatever you decide, they'll take a little getting used to -- but once you get the hang of them, you will place them plenty.

Rock and Snow allows you to mix and match any brands to make a set and still gives you the batch discount. Its a killer deal and how I bought mine.

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#14366 - 03/06/05 09:37 PM Re: How useful are Micro-nuts for leading 5.9s and easier .10s? [Re: dalguard]
Arms Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 12/23/99
Posts: 1763
Loc: WV, near NRG and Seneca
". . . there's not much point in carrying them if you don't trust them"

Wether or not you trust a piece matters little if it's all you get. Lets face it, you don't place those little guys if there is something beefier nearby.

An exception would be as a directional--a common use for micros.
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Arms

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#14367 - 03/06/05 11:07 PM Re: How useful are Micro-nuts for leading 5.9s and easier .10s? [Re: Arms]
rg@ofmc Online   content
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 12/25/99
Posts: 2472
Loc: Poughkeepsie, NY
When it comes to trust, I've always thought that micro cams are no more reliable than micro nuts, but I use both. To make Arms' point in a different way, the idea is to try to raise the probability that something will stop a fall.

In Gunks horizontal placements, if you can get in one micronut, you can often get in several and clip 'em all together. If you can place two and run each strand of a double through each, then each one only has to hold half the fall impact.

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#14368 - 03/06/05 11:12 PM Re: How useful are Micro-nuts for leading 5.9s and easier .10s? [Re: apsmith]
Coppertone Offline
old hand

Registered: 08/17/00
Posts: 1055
Loc: Newtown, CT
I generally always carry my HB offsets unless I am climbing something that I know and I don't need the gear. There are many 5.9' snd 5.10's at the gunks where the micros will come in handy. I use my HB's on Gunks routes such as Wasp, The Spring, Grand Central, Wegetables, Three Doves, Comando Rave, Never Neverland, Proctoscope, just to name a few routes in the range that you were asking about. You can keep 6 or 7 of these nuts on a biner and they weigh nothing, If you don't need them so what if you do need them you will be very happy to have them as they generally will fit where nothing else will.

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#14369 - 03/07/05 12:10 AM Re: How useful are Micro-nuts for leading 5.9s and easier .10s? [Re: Coppertone]
apsmith Offline
stranger

Registered: 06/18/03
Posts: 4
thanks all for the information
it sounds like they would be useful for routes that are in my range

the rock and snow deal sounds great

and it confirms what i was thinking---more gear is always good

cheers

aaron

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#14370 - 03/07/05 01:59 AM Re: How useful are Micro-nuts for leading 5.9s and easier .10s? [Re: rg@ofmc]
Arms Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 12/23/99
Posts: 1763
Loc: WV, near NRG and Seneca
I'm not Catholic but I often cross myself when placing micros; it might not help but what can it hurt.

Anyone recall stainless glue?

Dizz?
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Arms

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#14371 - 03/07/05 02:13 AM Re: How useful are Micro-nuts for leading 5.9s and easier .10s? [Re: Arms]
paborden Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 07/18/03
Posts: 366
Loc: On the road...
I second what RG said about RP 'nests' -- when it comes to micros, more is better.

Also, when I bought my set I picked up a screamer to go with them. People will debate me on this point, but when I clip micros or pins its usually with a screamer.

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#14372 - 03/07/05 01:35 PM Re: How useful are Micro-nuts for leading 5.9s and easier .10s? [Re: paborden]
Arms Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 12/23/99
Posts: 1763
Loc: WV, near NRG and Seneca
What harm could a screamer do?
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Arms

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#14373 - 03/07/05 02:56 PM Re: How useful are Micro-nuts for leading 5.9s and easier .10s? [Re: Arms]
nerdom Offline
Pooh-Bah *

Registered: 09/07/01
Posts: 2483
Loc: Davis Sq., MA
my buddy unzipped several strands of a Screamer on the super-manky, upward-driven pin at the crux of On Any Monday. It was an onsight attempt, so you can bet he was glad to have it!
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#14374 - 03/07/05 03:23 PM Re: How useful are Micro-nuts for leading 5.9s and easier .10s? [Re: nerdom]
MarcC Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/10/00
Posts: 3532
Quote:

my buddy unzipped several strands of a Screamer on the super-manky, upward-driven pin at the crux of On Any Monday.



I'm not sure which I find more surprising - that the pin is still there or that it actually held a fall (even with the screamer).
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- Marc

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#14375 - 03/07/05 05:01 PM Re: How useful are Micro-nuts for leading 5.9s and easier .10s? [Re: MarcC]
Coppertone Offline
old hand

Registered: 08/17/00
Posts: 1055
Loc: Newtown, CT
Quote:

Quote:

my buddy unzipped several strands of a Screamer on the super-manky, upward-driven pin at the crux of On Any Monday.



I'm not sure which I find more surprising - that the pin is still there or that it actually held a fall (even with the screamer).



That pin can be backed up with a bomber nut right next to it. Its a good stance there too as long as you can deal with that large pebble under your foot.

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#14376 - 03/07/05 06:23 PM Re: How useful are Micro-nuts for leading 5.9s and easier .10s? [Re: paborden]
talus Offline
veteran

Registered: 08/23/04
Posts: 1259
Quote:

I second what RG said about RP 'nests' -- when it comes to micros, more is better.

Also, when I bought my set I picked up a screamer to go with them. People will debate me on this point, but when I clip micros or pins its usually with a screamer.




peter stop being a wuss or you can't climb with the demolition team this year
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#14377 - 03/07/05 06:37 PM Re: How useful are Micro-nuts for leading 5.9s and easier .10s? [Re: apsmith]
quanto_the_mad Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/14/02
Posts: 2628
Loc: brooklyn
Micro nuts are fine, but you can never have enough green aliens!
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#14378 - 03/07/05 07:21 PM Re: How useful are Micro-nuts for leading 5.9s and easier .10s? [Re: apsmith]
GOclimb Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/26/01
Posts: 2361
Loc: Boston
As for brands, I've got the BD Micros, and I like them. But take this with a grain of salt, as I use them more on NH granite than I do on the Gunks.

Actually, my opinion is probably pretty worthless, since in addition to using them for NH granite more often than Gunks conglomerate, I also:
- Am only just breaking into Gunks 9s and 10s myself, and
- Only get to the Gunks maybe a half a dozen times a season.

So there's my $0.0002. Take it (or leave it) with a few grains of salt.

GO

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#14379 - 03/07/05 08:16 PM Re: How useful are Micro-nuts for leading 5.9s and easier .10s? [Re: apsmith]
MurphysLaw Offline
gumby

Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 2308
Loc: Hudson Valley, NY
HB offsets. They rule at the Gunks.

#5 is my personal wubbie. I have placed it so many times where other gear wouldn't go, I've lost track.
There are pitches where I've placed both #5's, and several of the other sizes too.
( I have doubles from 3-6, but this is admittedly overkill)
The #5 is to offsets, what the green is to Aliens.

Sizes #3-#6 are the 'real' gear, they are very strong and can hold a decent fall.

The smaller ones are good for oppositional pieces, or as headpieces maybe. (or for aid, if yer into that sorta thing)

You'd be surprised how often you can find a home for one on an 8 or 7 too; but for 9's and easier 10's (which is exactly where I'm at, or was at when I left off last yr) they are damn near indispensable IMHO.

Pick up #6, 5, 4, and 3 and a biner to rack 'em. You'll be glad ya did.

And don't bother with another green Alien, get a green/ yellow offset instead.
mmmmMMMMmmmmmm Alien offsets, mmmMMMMmmmmm

PS - edited to add: 2nd or 3rd of 4th the idea that a screamer ain't a bad idea either.... 'specialy on the smaller guys.
See attached for kN ratings:

no dims wt strength color price
inches gm kN lbf
0 .15 x .22 4 2.5 562 black $13.95
1 .15 x .31 4 4.5 1012 burgandy 13.95
2 .17 x .24 8 6 1350 red 13.95
3 .24 x .31 9 6 1350 orange 13.95
4 .28 x .37 13 8 1800 yellow 14.95
5 .31 x .43 16 7 1575 green 14.95
6 .38 x .51 24 10 2250 blue 14.95



Edited by MurphysLaw (03/07/05 08:25 PM)
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#14380 - 03/08/05 04:16 AM Re: How useful are Micro-nuts for leading 5.9s and easier .10s? [Re: MurphysLaw]
andrew Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/15/99
Posts: 1816
Loc: Denver, CO
if you travel you'll really like the micronuts as well. many 9s and 10s in places like little cottonwood or eldorado canyon pretty much require them.
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#14381 - 03/08/05 04:21 PM Re: How useful are Micro-nuts for leading 5.9s and easier .10s? [Re: andrew]
dalguard Offline
veteran

Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 1515
Loc: CT
If the green/yellow offset is a choice, I'm voting for that one. More useful than either a second green Alien or a set of micro-nuts IMO.

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#14382 - 03/08/05 05:05 PM Re: Extremely useful. [Re: MurphysLaw]
crackers Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 03/21/01
Posts: 3424
Loc: pdx
what murphy said, but with one caveat:

HB BRONZE offsets. They make bronze and alloy offsets, and he (and evrybody else) are talking about the BRONZE ones.

I would rather have my trusty HB Bronze set than just one cam.


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#14383 - 03/28/05 05:26 PM Re: Extremely useful. [Re: crackers]
qtzmznt Offline
stranger

Registered: 10/24/02
Posts: 4
Loc: CNY
Ditto on the green/yellow Alien. I place it as much as any other alien in the Gunks.

For small nuts, I LOVE the DMM peenuts. Rich Gottleib sold me on them and I use them all the time. Still haven't fallen on one, but their skinnier wire helps them fit into placements where a thicker wire would be excluded.

An example of loving them (gear beta alert!): I led the Winter for the first time this weekend and at the stemming crux got a perfect #6 or 7 bd stopper overhead but was able to back it up with an equalized peenut and #3 stopper underneath. Having the peenut in definitely helped me focus on the moves.

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#14384 - 10/20/05 08:29 AM HB Bronze Offsets [Re: crackers]
quanto_the_mad Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/14/02
Posts: 2628
Loc: brooklyn
It's been a few months, and I've been debating whether to get some HB Offsets. Since I had some free time today, I began looking online for them, and it turns out HB has gone out of business.

Guess I should have gotten them right after the discussion. Oh well.
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#14385 - 10/20/05 09:27 AM Re: HB Bronze Offsets [Re: quanto_the_mad]
tokyo bill Offline
old hand

Registered: 08/24/00
Posts: 793
Loc: Tokyo
QtM:

I think someone else may have already noted this, but just in case:

Word is that another gear maker (DMM, I believe) bought the molds - or whatever they're called - and will be turning out the same product in not too long.

Remains to be seen what will actually happen, but apparently there's hope.

I LOVE my aluminum offsets, and occasionally place a bronze as well (usually just before soiling my shorts...)


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#14386 - 10/20/05 11:20 AM Re: HB Bronze Offsets [Re: tokyo bill]
greyalien Offline
journeyman

Registered: 05/06/05
Posts: 86
Loc: Central NJ and Upstate NY
Quote:

QtM:

I think someone else may have already noted this, but just in case:

Word is that another gear maker (DMM, I believe) bought the molds - or whatever they're called - and will be turning out the same product in not too long.

Remains to be seen what will actually happen, but apparently there's hope.

I LOVE my aluminum offsets, and occasionally place a bronze as well (usually just before soiling my shorts...)






Yes, apparently DMM will start making the bronze offsets againt. However, theyve said that they probably wont continue with all the larger aluminum ones I really liked them for pin scars and funky irregular cracks.
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- Will

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#14387 - 10/27/05 06:18 AM Re: HB Bronze Offsets [Re: tokyo bill]
quanto_the_mad Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/14/02
Posts: 2628
Loc: brooklyn
Cool. I found the thread at r.c that said 4 weeks, which I think has come and gone but guess I can wait.
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