At this point I'm not sure if I'm for for against signs, but I do know this: they put up unobtrusive little signs at Wild Iris because the trails were braiding and guess what, it worked. The signs funneled traffic onto one trail and cut out cross-country routes when someone found they were heading in the wrong direction.

I can see how an unobstrusive sign at the base of the spur trails from the Carriage Road could lead to less traffic along the cliff base trail and possibly less erosion.
I would rather see the masses walk on the road than along the base of the cliff.

If it aids in preserving the cliff w/o being too obstrusive, I probably would not mind some signs.

TS

Evan, you don't have the option to dog-pile on with the rest of us, because not all of the rest of us have ridiculed the idea. But frankly, the arguments advanced so far don't really amount to much. Tim's point about funneling traffic onto trails doesn't wash at the Gunks, where the trails are marked.

The argument that people can ignore the guidebook, so why can't they ignore the signs ignores the fact that you can not walk around with a guidebook, but by the time you look away from a sign you've already seen it.

The idea that we need signs because during a weekday there aren't people to ask presumes that people have some right to not have to look for routes for themselves. The guidebooks have some walking times and other tips, and people can walk along the base and follow the feature descriptions and route descriptions. Frankly, that's an awful lot more information than you get at the New, the Dacks, Cathedral, JTree, and about a thousand other climbing areas out there.

So the question is, what kind of climbing area do we want the Gunks to be, a traditional climbing area, or another Smith Rock? Evan, you're welcome to say you don't want the Gunks to be a traditional climbing area, but face up to the fact that you feel that way, and say it.

At Mount Nemo on the Niagara Escarpement, they have numbers at the base of each route that correspond to the guide book. So I don't agree that the Gunks cliffs is the easiest (granted, place I'm talking about is not in the "nation").

If you want a good (or is that bad?) example "in the nation" there's always Crawdad Canyon in southern Utah - they have name plaques at the base of each of the climbs.

Consider this a vote for mile markers on the carriage road. Beneficial to hikers and bikers. Not as overbearing as route signs, but will help climbers find the correct approach path. Something similar at the Nears would be nice as well.

I've been climbing at the Gunks since 1997 and still sometimes have difficulty locating a climb. Of course, I once walked up to someone and asked what climb they were on. The response, Limelight, shouldn't have come as a surprise since I had climbed it six days earlier.

how about we just tie dogs down at different points on the carriage trail with signs on them indicating what climbs are above. The signs should contain name of the climb, topo, and full route/gear description. Dogs should be of any type just as long as they are tied down with a leash.

Dogs should be of any type just as long as they are tied down with a leash.

and friendly...don't forget that...otherwise you'll have people hogging routes with fido the pitbull growling at the base.

better yet, let's have alternating sets of g.commers stationed at every mile with a sandwich board containing the most brilliant pearl of wisdom ever shared by them on the board? this could be fun (but we should move it to the AAC thread to continue).

I support the idea. In fact I love it. but thats not the way it goes in this game is it. obfusication is a little contrivance designed to keep things somewhat exclusive.

Wont be long before guidebooks start using GPS coordinates - unobstrusive and direct I LOVE that idea even more

I was thinking those little solar powered sidewalk lights every 10 feet along the carriage path. They could all have numbers painted on them so you always know where you are, and they would help the climbers and hikers who get caught out after sunset.