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#16447 - 09/30/05 03:13 PM Re: cam suggestions [Re: Architect]
MurphysLaw Offline

Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 2308
Loc: Hudson Valley, NY
So, it's better to wait until you are climbing harder, and/or really get into the shit, before you start practicing w/ placing tricams?
Sorry guys. I'm not buying it.

Ed, I feel your pain (almost literally, since I've taken a ride that required surgery to fix afterwards).

BUT - there is no bad gear. There are only bad placements.

The gear didn't fail. The placement did.

When I decked, I pulled a green alien. Did I subsequently stop placing green aliens? Are YOU going to stop placing green aliens now?
It was pilot error, a poor placement. (and I knew it, and I was trying to back it up w/ something better when I slipped).

Going back to the original topic, I suggest that, BEFORE you start doubling up on ANY size cams, that you first get at least one set of pink-brown tricams.

They are lighter, cheaper, and more versatile than any cam. The first 2 points are not subject to debate.
Hence, they are good to get in the early rack-building stages, IMHO. YMMV, feel free to differ.

Place 'em from the good stances, or use 'em at belays, and 'save' your cams for when you might need gear in a hurry.
"Flailing?" "Flail on!"

#16448 - 09/30/05 03:28 PM Re: cam suggestions [Re: MurphysLaw]
crackers Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 03/21/01
Posts: 3424
Loc: pdx
personally, i hate tricams.

Tricams are a visceral issue, and the strong personal opinions of the people on this board are something that the OP will come to harbor in one direction or another over time.

I suggest walking into Rock and Snow and asking the guys there for assistance. They are super nice, knowledgable and more than happy to deal with gearheads. Plus if you buy a bunch, you get a free one with their cam card program (if its still on...)

Based on Murphy's comments though, i offer the following JOKE of a gear list:

double black aliens. Better learn to use them now.
double 00 metolius's. See above, you want to be comfortable with them before you get on the 10s and 11s that you'll need them on.
HB bronze offsets. Forget about the #6, you want the #3,4 and maybe a 5.
a grabbag of about 20 nuts. DMM Peanuts are great, then some of the 1-4 WC rocks, or the 1-5 BD nuts. You don't need nuts over #7, they're too big to place anywhere.
A double set of the alien offsets.
Two red camalots for Stannards Roof.
A gold camalot.
A couple of locking biners. I prefer Petzl William Screw Locks cause they're really big.
Find some camp sliding nuts. You'd better learn how to use them now. Ask somebody to show you how to modify them with shrink wrap so they don't stick on crystals.
Maybe a red, and an orange metolius cam just in case you're climbing easier than 5.9.

That should be all you need for that first rack. NOT.

Look: what you like is intensely personal. It all works if it's got a CE stamp or certification, and you will probably be better off with what you like. Shoot, I even have friends who like tricams! And those HB injector trigger cams!

#16449 - 09/30/05 03:52 PM Re: cam suggestions [Re: crackers]
MurphysLaw Offline

Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 2308
Loc: Hudson Valley, NY

PS - apparently HB Offsets are on the endangered species list, so get 'em now if ya can find 'em.
(They are the shizzit. As always, everybody else is free to disagree w/ me And NO, a new leader does not need them)
The #5 is my wubbie. I have 2 of them.

Crackie - you forgot the RP's in the nut selection.
The smaller the better.
Maybe some of the smallest Trango brassies too.
"Flailing?" "Flail on!"

#16450 - 09/30/05 04:54 PM Re: cam suggestions [Re: MurphysLaw]
Smike Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/01/01
Posts: 3143
Loc: in your backyard
Ya I like that idea myself, a new leader should get used to placing #1 to #3 Rp's AND the following:

Convincing yourself that it will all hold (believing in Voodoo helps)
Climbing waaaaay above it while fighting the persistent urge to puyke violently
and bring a change of shorts to change outta once ya flop on to the GT ledge after said crux with an RP nest way below.

#16451 - 09/30/05 04:55 PM HB offsets [Re: MurphysLaw]
CrackBoy Offline

Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 2435
Loc: Republic of Davis
actually HB won't be so endangered. DM bought the cast from HB so they are going to start making them pretty soon

i carry the offsets on everything now. if i could go back in time before i would probably uy a set of aluminum offsets and the smileys for my two sets of nuts.
Just Call me Mr. Enthusiasm

#16452 - 09/30/05 05:42 PM Re: cam suggestions [Re: Smike]
dalguard Offline

Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 1515
Loc: CT
It's really not a good analogy. You learn how to place microcams and brass nuts by placing larger cams and larger nuts. You wait before buying them because easier climbs don't need them and because there's less margin for error in placing them.

I have no issue with experienced leaders who've decided not to carry tricams. I don't carry hexes. But I do understand how they work and that they do work and that sometimes they work better than any other alternative. I'd never tell a new leader not to try them.

#16453 - 09/30/05 05:58 PM re: cam suggestions [Re: CrackBoy]
minbo Offline

Registered: 06/29/04
Posts: 24
Tricams, hexes, nuts aside, as he specificly requested info on cams...

You specified lead level, but not budget and not what gear your climbing partners may have which is why you are getting the kitchen sink recommended to you.

For your lead level you don't need microcams. They are not as strong and you don't need them for your lead level, especially as a beginning leader who probably won't go on anything sparser than a PG or two. No black alien, no blue camalot C4, no purple green or silver zero.

You also don't really NEED large cams for leads on you level, though at times they can be very nice to have. I would get them later if you have to pace purchases.

My rack for up to 5.8 leads in the Gunks is:

Double blue, green, yellow, red Aliens
Single orange, purple, white Aliens
One set of Smily nuts

For me, that has been more than enough pro for a single pitch. When I started I only carried single blue and red Aliens, and a second set of nuts. I found the blue and red alien useful enough to double them up all the time and that I didn't need the second set of nuts.

I HAVE a lot more cams (enough aliens that with what I carry I can make almost four full sets, the 3 larger camalots, full set of WC Zeros and more), another set of nuts, a set of hexes, a set and a half of tricams, and some big bros, but for leading in the Gunks at my level I don't need them and I don't think that you will for your lead level either. I have wished on occasion that I had carried some larger cams, hexes or some o fthe smaller big bros for anchor building on GT ledge, but have managed fine so far without them.

I am currently contemplating changing my rack from doubles of the blue, green, yellow and red aliens to singles of those, getting a single purple Max cam and carrying extra nuts and tricams instead, but I'm not yet sold on the Max cams such that I'm chomping at the bit to trust my life to one.

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