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#16417 - 09/28/05 03:48 PM Re: cam suggestions [Re: D75]
Mark Heyman Offline
old hand

Registered: 12/23/99
Posts: 1123
Loc: South Jersey (Pinelands)
Shouldn’t we be urging most new leaders to carry and place plenty of gear?

Before I made the Gunks my “regular” climbing area, I started leading with a full rack, and soon added mid range doubles specifically to replace cams I had used at belays. I even asked my second to carry them back then! Now climbing at the Gunks, I still carry the gear, but have to admit that it is tempting not to because of the numerous trees that may be used for anchors. I am far more comfortable running it out on easier sections too. But, that was not the case when I started.

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#16418 - 09/28/05 04:06 PM Re: cam suggestions [Re: Mark Heyman]
CrackBoy Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 2435
Loc: Republic of Davis
but i ddid suggest lots of gear, i said two sets of nuts.
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#16419 - 09/28/05 10:32 PM Re: cam suggestions [Re: skillet]
quanto_the_mad Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/14/02
Posts: 2628
Loc: brooklyn
You don't need to double up on stoppers; but two sets from different manufacturers work really well. Fer instance, BD stoppers which many seem to like, and then a set of Frost Sentinels. I love my Frosts- can't remember who but one person here said they seem to just get sucked into the rock. I lead Drunkards Delight yesterday, placing just about all my Frosts (and one single cam).

I have small Aliens, small/mid Tech Friends, and large Camelots, so I don't really need to double up, but I still have two green aliens since I use one or two on most climbs (I just seem to have an eye for green alien placements). That said, without the Tech Friends, I'd probably double up on Aliens up to Red.

I started with the "starter" rack of Aliens, a couple of Camelots, and a set of stoppers, and on my first real lead I used most of the cams before I got 20 feet off the ground. Since you're learning to place gear, better borrow gear and double up on all the sizes, and place as much gear as you can. For now, just sew it up. The more gear you place, the faster you'll get used to eyeballing placements and getting the right gear in the first try. As you get more experienced you can slim down your rack, but for now as you're doing easier climbs where you're less likely to fall and weight isn't as big an issue, borrow doubles, carry it all up and place as much as you can.
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#16420 - 09/29/05 12:52 PM Re: cam suggestions [Re: quanto_the_mad]
Architect Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 08/19/04
Posts: 210
Loc: north by northeast (from jerse...
It is such a fine balance between WHat gear to buy and What gear to borrow.
So far almost all answers here have been correct. to sum it up "it Depends..."

My suggestion (and I qualify this because I am a known Gear whore) is to buy conservatively.
If you are primarily climbing in the Gunks - up to 5.6 level you will NEED

at least 1 set of BD nuts ,
aliens from green to red,
Camelot's from purple to Blue,
pink to brown Tri-cams ( If you have an EXPERIENCED partner to show you how to properly place them)
Enough 2ft slings w/ biners and anchor gear.

everything else should be borrowed (shared) as stated earlier.

I am a Proud Sponsor of Rock and Snow!
Buy from them!
NOW!

-Trout

and stay away from specialty gear and shiny magical stuff it will consume you and leave you poor and helpless!

I know for I am a gear whore!
and my name is Karl!

_________________________
-Karl - Looking for a clucking partner
www.genxclimbing.com

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#16421 - 09/29/05 02:20 PM Re: cam suggestions [Re: CrackBoy]
edk Offline
addict

Registered: 05/06/02
Posts: 441
Loc: allentown, NJ
Quote:

wow, you really don't need all that many cams for the grades stated.

get yourself a green, red, and yellow camalot doubles on the 3 smallest tricams and you are all set with cams. throw on double sets of nuts , (smileys are BD clones and half as expensive) and you have a rack.

you don't need doubles of cams to start out with no matter what anyone says




That might be a good beginning rack for a sick hard climber like you whose best protection is how they climb.... But to me that rack sounds like a recipe for disaster to the kind of new leader I'm seeing at hte crag.

highly dependant on cams of any / all sizes. Doubles of course aren't needed - who even *needs* cams, but having 2 of a the yellow alien and the red-gold camalot... hell yeah!

doubles on the three smallest tri-cam ???? that's just 'f'in wierd You won't double up on cams that find their way into TONS of placements on HUNDREDS of routes, but you'll double up tricams? man if you need to save money that bad do like Architect says.

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#16422 - 09/29/05 02:42 PM Re: cam suggestions [Re: edk]
MurphysLaw Offline
gumby

Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 2308
Loc: Hudson Valley, NY
doubles on the three smallest tri-cam ???? that's just 'f'in wierd

I have doubles on pink and red, and one brown.
(I also have a coupla in the next bigger sizes, but they are gathering dust in my spare gear bag.)
I have many times placed both pinks, or both reds, or even all 4, on a given route.

So I'm f'n wierd. We knew that.

They effectively double up yer mid to large stoppers, AND also yer medium cams, from say yellow to orange Alien.
And of course often go where nothing else will.

For a smidge more than the cost and weight of ONE extra cam, you can have FIVE Tricams.

Thereby giving you (particularly a new leader who might want more gear on hand, without being loaded down like a Sherpa) LOTS more options and flexibility in placements.

And more booty opportunities for us when they "can't clean them".
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#16423 - 09/29/05 02:51 PM Re: cam suggestions [Re: MurphysLaw]
d-elvis Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 04/26/00
Posts: 3650
Loc: Central PA
2 of every BD cam and Alien and you'll be set
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#16424 - 09/29/05 02:53 PM Re: cam suggestions [Re: skillet]
Bolt_Skytop Offline
addict

Registered: 11/21/01
Posts: 422
Loc: New Paltz, New York
This is a tad pricey but complete:
Green, yellow, gray, and red aliens
Purple, green, red, gold, blue Camelot’s
ABC Huecos
Pink, red, brown tricams

The blue Camelot is key on easier climbs. These climbs are often easy because the horizontals are bigger and therefore require bigger cams. Don't fuck with blue or black aliens for now they are precision tools and can be dangerous if not placed exactly. This precision comes with practice.
I will put in another vote for Rock and Snow. They are knowledgeable, friendly, and a great local resource. Since they will match Internet prices there is no reason not to support them.

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#16425 - 09/29/05 02:58 PM Re: cam suggestions [Re: MurphysLaw]
Architect Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 08/19/04
Posts: 210
Loc: north by northeast (from jerse...
A word for the Tri cam discussion.
As of this coming weekend, I will have finished EVERY 5.5 pitch in the trapps* and I have yet to need a tri cam.
They are an inexpensive and solid piece of Pro if used carefully and properly but it is much more secure to place a good Cam.
I gave all of my tricams away this year because I have not used them in over 2 seasons.



* I have a new beginning climbing partner so to make it fun for me as well as her we decided to do this from Black Fly to Rangers Revenge.
Lots of good stuff I probably never would have got on otherwise.
_________________________
-Karl - Looking for a clucking partner
www.genxclimbing.com

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#16426 - 09/29/05 03:27 PM Re: cam suggestions [Re: Architect]
MurphysLaw Offline
gumby

Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 2308
Loc: Hudson Valley, NY
As of this coming weekend, I will have finished EVERY 5.5 pitch in the trapps* and I have yet to need a tri cam

Frankly, you could have finished EVERY 5.5 in the Trapps and not needed a CAM either.

And have been a better leader for it.
(I must be channeling RG here, I'm feeling quite retro-grouchy at the moment )

All of those routes can be, and have been, and were for years, led w/ nuts and hexes ONLY.
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