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#16437 - 09/29/05 08:11 PM Re: cam suggestions [Re: edk]
dalguard Offline
veteran

Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 1515
Loc: CT
Um, you do sound a little overwrought.

Tricams are an inexpensive and lightweight alternative to carrying a lot of extra cams and they're a standard part of most Gunks racks. If you're going to climb at the Gunks, you should learn to place tricams and the way to learn to place them is to place them and the time to do that is early on when you're not planning on falling on any of that gear anyway, right?

There's no secret to them. It's just a matter of learning to fiddle. I think it's just as easy to tell a good tricam from a bad as it is any other piece of gear. Nice to have a mentor to confirm your judgements and all that, but let's not make tricams out to be an advanced technique.

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#16438 - 09/29/05 08:21 PM Re: cam suggestions [Re: dalguard]
edk Offline
addict

Registered: 05/06/02
Posts: 441
Loc: allentown, NJ
Quote:

Um, you do sound a little overwrought.

Tricams are an inexpensive and lightweight alternative to carrying a lot of extra cams and they're a standard part of most Gunks racks. If you're going to climb at the Gunks, you should learn to place tricams and the way to learn to place them is to place them and the time to do that is early on when you're not planning on falling on any of that gear anyway, right?

There's no secret to them. It's just a matter of learning to fiddle. I think it's just as easy to tell a good tricam from a bad as it is any other piece of gear. Nice to have a mentor to confirm your judgements and all that, but let's not make tricams out to be an advanced technique.




OK I give!!! <Ed raises right hand>Tri-Cams are the best little pieces of gear!! I will begin carrying them Next time I climb, and practice placing them from the good stances, while follwing, and during rainy days at the Uberfall.</ed meekly lowers it>

Jeez, I didn't think there was a secret to them, we just have a little... history. I don't like them, but I'll change, I will -- I'll try! I swear!!!

The first person to invent a way to impart tone and emotion (smiley faces dont count) in web boards and email will be richer than Bill Gates.

I go on record : I did not mean to offend the legions of Tri-cam lovers, nor did I want to be thought of a poor gunks citizen and bad gear dude for speaking ill of them.

I need that RBL road trip and Jameson. NOW!

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#16439 - 09/30/05 02:20 AM Re: cam suggestions [Re: edk]
Smike Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/01/01
Posts: 3143
Loc: in your backyard
I placed a tri cam for the 1st time in about a year and 1/2. And you know what? Its now fixed! Thank god, now I only have 2 more friggin pink ones to go before I'm clean of all my tri-cams

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#16440 - 09/30/05 03:43 AM Re: cam suggestions [Re: skillet]
GOclimb Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/26/01
Posts: 2362
Loc: Boston
You do not need to go as big as the #3 Camalot. I was as happy as a pig in shit for my first two years of leading with biggest cam being #2 (bought bigger for a trip out west). But that brings me to another point - I *did* use large hexes, and found them very useful. Still do, actually. Climbs everywhere under 5.8 tend to have a lot of broken rock and big cracks in them, and this is where hexes excel. With that said, here's the perfect rack I'd recommend for a beginning leader at the Gunks:

- green, yellow, red aliens.
- either orange alien or purple camalot - your choice.
- green, red, yellow camalots.

No doubles in cams.

- one and a half sets of nuts - doubling the small end. Starting at BD #4. But don't buy the BD ones, buy the Smileys, or whatever they're called now - they're identical to the BDs except cheaper.

-pink, red, brown tricams. One each is plenty to start.

- largest five hexes, slung on high-tech cord.

Have fun!

GO

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#16441 - 09/30/05 02:05 PM Re: cam suggestions [Re: edk]
Architect Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 08/19/04
Posts: 210
Loc: north by northeast (from jerse...
Quote:



OK I give!!! <Ed raises right hand>Tri-Cams are the best little pieces of gear!! I will begin carrying them Next time I climb, and practice placing them from the good stances, while follwing, and during rainy days at the Uberfall.</ed meekly lowers it>

Jeez, I didn't think there was a secret to them, we just have a little... history. I don't like them, but I'll change, I will -- I'll try! I swear!!!





Note...
Ed's History came about as close as one could say to him not having any more history - and a carry out and a lot of surgery. his fall was made worse because of a pink tri-cam.

he may not want to make it into a big deal, But it is! and His experience with them makes me shut up and listen.
(Im not saying that anyone else should)

When It comes to gear, I am under the opinion that no matter how wonderful it places, no matter how wonderful it cleans and no matter how super light and shinny it is, If it has a history for taking falls either good or bad I'll base my decisions on that.
second comes my own experiences with the piece or something similar,
then placement , then cost, then shinny factor (OK, sometimes shinny factor comes before cost)

Tri cams can be good pieces but I do not feel that they are a beginner leader rack worthy.
I feel they should definitely be considered as secondary gear so you can save your cams for a later time.

And to make this thread even more flammable I am going to toss Hexes in with tri cams as well.

we have better and safer overall technology, it cost more but your life is worth it.

Do not disregard tri cams and hexes all together, just be damn sure you know they are bomber placements before getting sketchy over them!
and getting sketchy over any gear is something I would not recommend to a new leader.

I think I am missing my own point again. sorry I spent the night in the Vet hospital cuz my cat took a whipper out my bedroom window last night!

-Trout


_________________________
-Karl - Looking for a clucking partner
www.genxclimbing.com

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#16442 - 09/30/05 02:10 PM Re: cam suggestions [Re: GOclimb]
nerdom Offline
Pooh-Bah *

Registered: 09/07/01
Posts: 2483
Loc: Davis Sq., MA
Gotta second (third, fourth?) the #3 Camalot. Indispensible piece for the 5.6 and under leader, IMHO. Also second the Hex recommendation. Bomber pieces without the walking/extended runners requirements of many cam placements (sure, a year or two from now, you'll never use them - unless you plan on doing long alpine rock routes, where they're the tits). I started out with BD Camalots .5 - #3, BD Hexes 4-10, and Wallnuts 1-10. Didn't add Aliens for a couple years. If money is an issue, Camalots are a great way to go, because they just have a greater range than other cams. But if money's not an issue, then by all means, buy those Aliens! They will become the most frequently placed cams on your rack. I'm also in the "beginning leaders should avoid small - black, blue, green - Alien placements" school -- a beginner just shouldn't be relying on small cam placements to save his/her ass.

Saw a beginning/novice leader lead V-3 once with NOTHING but tri-cams. It was pretty impressive.
_________________________
we're all living proof that nothing lasts

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#16443 - 09/30/05 02:28 PM Re: cam suggestions [Re: nerdom]
d-elvis Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 04/26/00
Posts: 3650
Loc: Central PA
Like Architect, I too do not use tricams because of the "ed-factor"
_________________________
"Marriage Survivor"

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#16444 - 09/30/05 02:31 PM Re: cam suggestions [Re: d-elvis]
dalguard Offline
veteran

Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 1515
Loc: CT
I don't know guys. There's nothing inherently safer or better about a cam. The safest piece is the piece that fits the placement best. If you have the attitude that cam=safe, you're going to be wrong sometimes and that's dangerous. A new leader should learn to place all gear, not learn to plug in a cam whenever he's sketched, like cams are magic.

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#16445 - 09/30/05 02:43 PM Re: cam suggestions [Re: Architect]
D75 Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 03/18/05
Posts: 293
Loc: Holiday Inn Express
Quote:

.... his fall was made worse because of a pink tri-cam. -Trout



Worse than what? Worse than if he had not placed it? Likely not. Worse than he expected. Likely yes, since he probably expected the piece to stay in place. How many people have never placed a piece of protection that came out [edited to correct here], even without a fall?

If he could have placed something else there that would have held, then it might be considered an error in judgment. (I suspect that if the placement would have supported an SLCD, then an SLCD would have been used - just a guess.) If he had placed an SLCD in the same spot and it failed, would he have abandoned the use of cams, or that particular cam?

Any piece can be placed poorly. Even pieces that are optimally placed have some probability of failure - hardware, rock, or movement caused by climbing changes it unseen. I have seen stoppers and cams placed by highly skilled and experienced climbers fall after a placement.

If one used the "this piece failed for me or someone else argument" then we would all quit climbing or just solo.


Edited by D75 (09/30/05 03:00 PM)

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#16446 - 09/30/05 02:52 PM Re: cam suggestions [Re: dalguard]
Architect Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 08/19/04
Posts: 210
Loc: north by northeast (from jerse...
yep

but there is a bit of thread drift here.
the original post was for which pieces to buy first
tricams IMO do not make my first round of purchasing list*.
I think that is my point I am so desperately trying to hold onto .

* note: that is, if I were to do it again

_________________________
-Karl - Looking for a clucking partner
www.genxclimbing.com

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