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#16788 - 10/22/05 07:02 PM Arrow bolts
DeVkREv Offline
newbie

Registered: 08/15/05
Posts: 29
Loc: Traprockville, Connecticut
I led Arrow yesterday for the first time, awesome climb. I was a little worried about that crux bolt at the top, especially cause I used my only two screamers on a blue alien and the prior bolt, it was a pretty loose spinner, and the bolt itself was all rusty.
I guess its all part of the experience though, or is it?
later
dev

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#16789 - 10/22/05 09:45 PM Re: Arrow bolts [Re: DeVkREv]
dalguard Offline
veteran

Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 1515
Loc: CT
Considering there's no reason to take a fall longer than 6 inches there, I expect the bolt would hold.

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#16790 - 10/22/05 10:14 PM Re: Arrow bolts [Re: dalguard]
D75 Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 03/18/05
Posts: 293
Loc: Holiday Inn Express
The bolt does have some rust. Noticed that myself this week. Did not notice it at the start of the season. It is hard to tell how much. And the hanger spins easily. With slack in the system, stretch, blind belay, it is possible for about 10-15 foot fall. Caught light climber on one myself. The fall is clean if the bolt holds. If it doesn't , you get another 20 feet. Bolts are cheap. Installing a new one properly would be an improvement.

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#16791 - 10/23/05 01:16 AM Re: Arrow bolts [Re: DeVkREv]
schwortz Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 09/10/03
Posts: 308
dont fall and the bolt will hold your rope just fine

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#16792 - 10/23/05 03:33 PM Re: Arrow bolts [Re: D75]
dalguard Offline
veteran

Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 1515
Loc: CT
Quote:

With slack in the system, stretch, blind belay, it is possible for about 10-15 foot fall. Caught light climber on one myself.


Was that you belaying that poor guy? He was pretty freaked out being dropped like that. I haven't personally taken that fall myself and I'll grant you rope stretch (which obviously doesn't add to the fall factor) but there's really no excuse for dropping a climber 15 feet there.

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#16793 - 10/24/05 12:45 AM Re: Arrow bolts [Re: D75]
Steven Cherry Offline

veteran

Registered: 12/23/99
Posts: 1300
Loc: New York, N.Y.
it is possible for about 10-15 foot fall.

You're inches above the bolt, with an 8-12" draw, maybe 70 feet of rope out is another 6 ft of stretch, a couple of slack; 10 feet maybe, 15 feet sounds a little lackadaisical.

The fall is clean if the bolt holds. If it doesn't , you get another 20 feet. Bolts are cheap. Installing a new one properly would be an improvement.

There's a small nut placement pretty close to the bolt. If you can't find it, and you don't trust the bolt, you can always downclimb.

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#16794 - 10/24/05 01:14 AM Re: Arrow bolts [Re: dalguard]
D75 Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 03/18/05
Posts: 293
Loc: Holiday Inn Express
dalgard, WTF are you talking about? Sounds like you know of somebody who did take a fall there. And I am assuming it was more than 6 inches that got him upset.

And will you come up with a realistic estimate? I guess it must be somewhere between the length of my short little *i** and fifteen feet. Maybe it would be good to start with rope stretch on 90 feet of rope. Then toss in reasonable slack. Or do your belayers make you pull the rope through their BDs eliminating slack? Even a quickdraw is worth a foot. I assume you did not want him to clip his rope directly to a biner on the bolt?

Sounds like you are kind of like schwortz. Since you don't fall there, I guess the two of you just skip the bolt. But the original poster put a screamer on the one below. Obviously he was not as comfortable as you two clowns at this grade. Perhaps if he did it again he would have saved the screamer for the second bolt. But obviously he was not more comfortable making this move than the FAs who bolted the move on rappel. But he also did not fall, which suggests that he was not over his head at the grade.

I do not fault him for posting his observation. I observed the same thing. While I think the bolt in its current state probably would hold a fairly high impulse fall, at $4 for a bolt, replacing it properly seems reasonable to me.


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#16795 - 10/24/05 01:25 AM Re: Arrow bolts [Re: D75]
dalguard Offline
veteran

Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 1515
Loc: CT
You're talking semantics. Rope stretch reduces fall factor. It doesn't add to it. Slack is a wash. You're at the end of the pitch with the bolt at your waist. A black alien could hold that fall. But, hell, replace the bolt if you're afraid. It's been about two months since I saw it. Maybe it looks bad now. I don't know.


Edited by dalguard (10/24/05 01:29 AM)

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#16796 - 10/24/05 01:47 AM Re: Arrow bolts [Re: dalguard]
D75 Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 03/18/05
Posts: 293
Loc: Holiday Inn Express
Quote:

You're talking semantics. Rope stretch reduces fall factor. It doesn't add to it. Slack is a wash. You're at the end of the pitch with the bolt at your waist. A black alien could hold that fall. But, hell, replace the bolt if you're afraid. It's been about two months since I saw it. Maybe it looks bad now. I don't know.



Semantics is meaning. Yes, you can fit a truck in between 6 inches and ten feet.
And you ought to know that rope stretch does not change fall factor.
Every foot of slack is a foot of fall, whatever you mean by wash.
And you ducked the question. The bolt is about 8-10 feet from the chains, so you have roughly 90 feet plus slack out. So I will repeat the question. How long do you really think a fall could be? You can skip answering the other questions if you like. And I am guessing that you won't answer this one either, judging by your redirection into things like fall factors and black aliens.

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#16797 - 10/24/05 02:36 AM Re: Arrow bolts [Re: D75]
schwortz Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 09/10/03
Posts: 308
MISSING

sense of humor

if found please return to D75

possibly left clipped to a rusty bolt or old ring pin somewhere in the trapps

reward: choice of 'fun' lecture about bolts or fall factors


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