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#16898 - 06/07/06 12:08 AM Re: The Fragmenting of Gardiner [Re: smokejumper1]
strat Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 04/30/01
Posts: 4242
10-15 cars, 2-3 times a day, on beautiful saturdays and sundays.

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#16899 - 06/29/06 08:24 PM Re: The Fragmenting of Gardiner [Re: smokejumper1]
Pamela Offline
stranger

Registered: 03/05/06
Posts: 17
Loc: Gardiner NY
[quote Selective enforcement comes from minimal resources. How much revenue do you think Gardiner would make from enforcing the overlook?




I live in Gardiner, and my home is on the S Mt. Road bordering Awosting land. The state made a presentation at the June town meeting, given by a Michael Krish, the Minnewaska Park Manger. There are currently no plans to add a formal access, as they admit that the land was suddenly "dumped" in their laps, more than doubling the park size. However, the funding to support the added land has not increased, nor has the personnel to oversee the land.

Gardiner has no police force. We rely on the state police, who's best use of resources is not giving out tickets at the overlook. We have one part time code enforcement officer. We have an all volunteer fire/emergency crew. If the climbers would like to support them, they can go to the Neighborhood Block Party from 6-11PM on Saturday July 1.at teh GFD (Gardiner Fire Department) on 44/55. Donation of $20 includes buffet dinner and raffle.

I dread the summer months coming as more people find out about the Awosting land addition, and who think it will be open as part of the park. I hope they don't want to get there by way of my yard.

PS. I go by the Multiple Abuse Areas every day to and from my job. It's disgusting...especially those people who leave bags of garbage and can't read the "carry in-carry-out" notice. I guess they think the garbage service that Gardiner doesn't have will pick it up for them.

That's all.



Edited by Pamela (06/30/06 01:17 PM)

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#16900 - 06/29/06 10:26 PM Re: The Fragmenting of Gardiner [Re: Pamela]
mworking Offline
old hand

Registered: 05/26/04
Posts: 764
I know this is sliding off topic, but
Quote:

PS. I go by the Multiple Abuse Areas every day to and from my job. It's disgusting...especially those people who leave bags of garbage and can't read the "carry in-carry-out" notice.





People are slobs. not everyone, but in general. Rather than giving them a clean area with plenty of trash cans where someone might actually feel guilty for leaving a mess; tell those same lazy poeple who will only some times use the trash cans if you provide them, they have to carry out all their trash no matter how much they don't want it in their car.

I have seen quite a few parks do this, and in every case it seems to be the most potent recipe for the most disgusting messes I have been unfortunate enough to come across. I'm not justifiying those messes, simply asking what did the managers expect - it's not any different than anywhere else.

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#16901 - 06/30/06 12:27 AM Re: The Fragmenting of Gardiner [Re: mworking]
Mike Rawdon Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/29/99
Posts: 4276
Loc: Poughkeepsie
Agreed. Carry in-carry out is generally a failure.

Unless I suppose you count it as a success if 95% of the folks take their trash with them (vs probaly close to zero if there are cans available). It comes down to the site operator having to deal with somewhat less garbage.

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#16902 - 06/30/06 01:29 AM Re: The Fragmenting of Gardiner [Re: Mike Rawdon]
Terrie Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 247
This was a picture I shot at the early part of this climbing season, at the MUA on the side closer to 45/55.

The stack of trash was there for 3 weekends before it got hauled away, and each weekend, it grew larger.

Each weekend I took the empty cans and bottles and put them in the recyle bos at the deli. Each weekend I engaged people who were eyeing the thing up as if it were the "official" trash dump, in an attempt to make them aware that dumping trash was "not the right way." One guy, I saw toss a soda bottle in it as he walked by. I said "Hey - I know people dumped this crap here, but this area has a policy of carrying out what we bring in." He snarked "It wasn't mine. I saw it in the parking area, and was good enough to put it here."

Anyway - I can say that of all the folks I've ever seen tossing crap, acting obnoxiously, etc., they are not loal, regular-to-the-area people, and they tend not to be climbers, either. I think that those who are regular to the area know the deal and, for the most part, respect it. But people come from far away, on maybe the once a year to the Gunks trip, and they simply don't expect to see the primative set up. And it's not like there are easily identifiable spots to dispose of refuse properly.

While I think the phot above is a glaring example of bad behavior, I think that sometimes, people just don't know what to do, and even though they know it is wrong.....they slink off and add their "just one small bag, what can that hurt" mentality to the pile someone else has already left.

It's not the locals who need the education - it's those valued dollar-spending tourists from other areas...... How do we go about educataing them, and offering a VIABLE solution? You would "think" the Carry In/Carry Out" signage shold be self-explanatory, but clearly - it isn't 100% effective.

What CAN we do????

I wondered what the cost is, of having a trash receptacle with regular cleanup, say from March through November? If it were at even just one of the sides, andat the other, there was a sign explaining about the receptacle at the other location, I think people would use it.

Would it be even be possible to have this ammenity, or is the beurocratic process too cumbersome? What is involved? has there ever BEEN trash receptacles there? If it were possible to happen, we could have a fundraiser to pay for the thing, and also have a "donations" box right next to the trash bin, with signage explaining it's cost.....


Just a thought. I know the MUA is supposed to be "low impact" camping, but which is worse? 3 weeks of rotted garbage, or a recycle/trash bin?
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#16903 - 06/30/06 02:00 PM Re: The Fragmenting of Gardiner [Re: Terrie]
Pamela Offline
stranger

Registered: 03/05/06
Posts: 17
Loc: Gardiner NY
Terrie: Thanks for this photo, it was exactly the incident I was referring to. Honestly, it made me feel guilty driving by every day, but I was not about to pick it up and haul around garbage in the trunk of my car all day. And, I pay almost $100 a month to Waste Management to take my garbage at my house. The other alternative is to take it to the Gardiner Transfer station, and pay $3 or $4 dollars a bag to have them take it. And, I'm sorry to say that if you put trash recepticles at the MAA's, you would probably have some people from Gardiner using them to rid themselves of their trash for free(free is a relative term, as we all end up paying for it in the end).

Yes, this is off topic. But it shows that the State cannot adequately oversee and manage two small camp areas, so how are they expected to manage and police 6,000 acres in Gardiner. Oh, and the state has erected what they indicated will be solutions to the unauthorized parking on Gardiner roads. On one preserve entrance (off S. Mountain road), they have put up an "Authorized Vehicles Only" sign. At the town meeting they indicated they were putting these up to deter people from parking on the roads. Ha ha.


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#16904 - 06/30/06 06:23 PM Re: The Fragmenting of Gardiner [Re: Pamela]
Terrie Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 247
Quote:

But it shows that the State cannot adequately oversee and manage two small camp areas, so how are they expected to manage and police 6,000 acres in Gardiner.




I don't think the "no trash receptacles" choice for the MUA is relevant to the ability to oversee the new addionm to the preserve. A decision was made - no trash cans at the MUA.

Interesting - and probably true - that people might use MUA trash as a way to reduce their own cost of trash removal, and a point that would need to be considered if they ever did put bins at the MUA. With the new camping area "in the works," I don't think there's much chance trash receptacles will be on any agenda soon though.....

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Links to my blog, and online t-shirt shop

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#16905 - 06/30/06 10:20 PM Re: The Fragmenting of Gardiner [Re: Terrie]
Mike Rawdon Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/29/99
Posts: 4276
Loc: Poughkeepsie
I have personally watched someone - presumably a local resident - drive to the back of the Preserve Visitor Center and place several bags of garbage from their car into the dumpster there.

If WM charges upwards of $100/mo, then it's a wonder every road in the whole freakin' town isn't lined with trash.

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#16906 - 08/30/06 06:12 PM Re: The Fragmenting of Gardiner [Re: Mike Rawdon]
Pamela Offline
stranger

Registered: 03/05/06
Posts: 17
Loc: Gardiner NY
Sorry, I did write $100/month....it's actually for a quarter - 3 month period. However, the town does have transfer station charges to bring garbage there...off of Steve's Lane in Gardiner. That's if you don't have it picked up by a private hauler like WM.

I'm not so much annoyed at the people who camp at the MAA, I just wish Mohonk Preserve would use some of their precious land to put camgrounds in, and maybe some bathrooms. They boast of 1 million visitors a year, where do they expect these people to sleep and poop?

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#16907 - 08/30/06 08:19 PM Re: The Fragmenting of Gardiner [Re: Pamela]
RangerRob Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/06/00
Posts: 3765
Loc: Ulster County, NY
Pamela, now you're talking crazy talk!!!

RR

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