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#18145 - 02/14/06 04:33 PM Re: Why The Mohonk Trust? [Re: chip]
Smike Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/01/01
Posts: 3143
Loc: in your backyard
Why The Mohonk Preserve?


I think the simple answer is that we have MUCH more ability to influence the Private Preserve then we ever do with PIPC (The government can just tell us (climbers) to go kiss off while they keep sucking off of the coffers of tax payersÂ’ money to keep them afloat.) The PICP is somewhat immune from the biggest influence we as climbers have over the preserve Â…money.

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#18146 - 02/16/06 05:48 AM Re: Why The Mohonk Trust? [Re: Smike]
raelian Offline
newbie

Registered: 12/27/02
Posts: 33
Loc: Jersey City
I oughtn't repeat myself but:

The Preserve takes the heat off Palisades Park Commission so they needn't listen to climbers.... I don't say by design-- but in effect.

To some of these other posts: Ronald ("trees cause pollution") Regan said it best:: "get gobberment off our backs."

Or Margaret Thatcher: "There is no such thing as 'society.' "

Each a brilliant comment and probably way ahead of its time....


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#18147 - 02/16/06 04:18 PM Re: Why The Mohonk Trust? [Re: raelian]
tradjunkie Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 04/19/04
Posts: 364
So then if the PIPC is the 'problem' why not just turn Minnewaska etc. into Minnewaska Park, like Catskill Park and Adirondack Park?
I have a big blue marker if you have a map...

Or to phrase what you are saying differently:

Subject: Re: Why The Adirondack Park?
The Park takes the heat off Palisades Park Commission so they needn't listen to climbers from Albany.... I don't say by design-- but in effect.

Do you have a problem with Adirondack Park too?

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#18148 - 02/16/06 04:37 PM Re: Why The Mohonk Trust? [Re: tradjunkie]
Smike Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/01/01
Posts: 3143
Loc: in your backyard
I oughtn't repeat myself but:

The Preserve takes the heat off Palisades Park Commission so they needn't listen to climbers.... I don't say by design-- but in effect..


I get it , like why don't we close all of the homeless shelters in NY city so the Government actually *might* have to give homeless people a job and food.

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#18149 - 02/16/06 05:20 PM Re: Why The Mohonk Trust? [Re: Smike]
D75 Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 03/18/05
Posts: 293
Loc: Holiday Inn Express
Smike - As long as there is no climbing in the Palisades, why not let them stay there?

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#18150 - 02/17/06 09:03 PM Re: Why The Mohonk Trust? [Re: D75]
RangerRob Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/06/00
Posts: 3765
Loc: Ulster County, NY
"So then if the PIPC is the 'problem' why not just turn Minnewaska etc. into Minnewaska Park, like Catskill Park and Adirondack Park?
I have a big blue marker if you have a map..."

Ughh! Do I have to get into why The Adirondack and Catskill Parks aren't parks again??? A pox upon that person who attached the word "park" to the Forest Preserve!!!!!

RR

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#18151 - 02/18/06 12:11 AM A park by any other name... [Re: RangerRob]
Mike Rawdon Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/29/99
Posts: 4276
Loc: Poughkeepsie
OK, so the Catskills and ADKs aren't really parks but we can climb there. The Mohonk Preserve is a preserve, but we can climb there. Central Park really is a park, but we can climb (boulder) there. So what's the problem with Minnewaska again?

Oh yea, too many little pine trees and big hemlock trees. Except there aren't any of those along Hamilton Point and Gertrudes Nose...

I think it's time for Southern New York to secede from the Garden State.

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#18152 - 02/18/06 12:18 AM Re: Why The Mohonk Trust? [Re: RangerRob]
raelian Offline
newbie

Registered: 12/27/02
Posts: 33
Loc: Jersey City
Thread drift:

I do undertand many of the pin-headed distinctions the state makes among its holdings, but this is from the NYS DEC Web site description of, for example, the Adirondak Park:

"The Adirondack Mountains of northeastern New York are home to the six-million-acre Adirondack Park, a patchwork of public and private lands protected under state law."

No serious refutations, apparently, to my contention that Mohonk Preserve helps to enable the PIPC's bone-headedness. If PIPC had to work with climbers regarding the Trapps, (and obviously they would, if they managed it) they'd be potentially forced into putting the whole ball of wax on the table.

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#18153 - 02/18/06 12:49 AM Re: Why The Mohonk Trust? [Re: raelian]
MarcC Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/10/00
Posts: 3532
Quote:

No serious refutations, apparently, to my contention that Mohonk Preserve helps to enable the PIPC's bone-headedness. If PIPC had to work with climbers regarding the Trapps, (and obviously they would, if they managed it) they'd be potentially forced into putting the whole ball of wax on the table.



Why? Why would they "obviously work with climbers"? As an example, The Palisades do not have any other established climbing areas under alternate jurisdiction abuting them. The PIPC has banned climbing there for over 50 years. Why would it be any different at the Gunks?
_________________________
- Marc

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#18154 - 02/18/06 03:16 AM Re: Why The Mohonk Trust? [Re: MarcC]
raelian Offline
newbie

Registered: 12/27/02
Posts: 33
Loc: Jersey City
Apparently you discount the weight of tradition (and its its legal implications), as well as tsheer numbers of annual climber days at Trapps/Nears

The community of interest has been inadvertantly co-opted by Mohonk Preserve...The environmental loser from state policy resulting indirectly from MT's existence in recent decades is Trapps/Nears ---- The other losers are obvious.
.

Or at least one could say--- if for the past twenty years the state had an aggressive climbing development policy for Minnewaska and perhaps the Palisades it probably wouldn't make the Trapps/Nears more crowded & might even help sigificantly.

================


Edited by raelian (02/20/06 06:46 AM)

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