Shout Box

Who's Online
0 registered (), 8 Guests and 3 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Page 3 of 5 < 1 2 3 4 5 >
Topic Options
#18199 - 03/06/06 12:38 PM Re: Preserve neighbors speak up [Re: GeeVee]
strat Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 04/30/01
Posts: 4242
Quote:

Misinformed, possibly.

How do you propose to tax these visitors? Is it not enough that we already spend money at local businesses?

Did Kent encourage you to post?




I sure hope Pamela doesn't drive outside of the town of Gardiner, because I'm quite sure she doesn't pay taxes that the support the roads in other townships..... [rolling my eyes]

Top
#18200 - 03/06/06 04:06 PM Re: Preserve neighbors speak up [Re: strat]
Smike Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/01/01
Posts: 3143
Loc: in your backyard
Hundreds of thousands of visitors go through there a year, stomping around the ridge. They pay little to no taxes to contribute to our roads or infrastructructure.

The issue is simple. The preserve has something that people will pay for. The town of Gardiner has very little, except for its “main” roads that cross the township which are entirely under control and funding of the state (I.e. RT 44/55) I being a homeowner next to Gardiner township have almost no reason to spend money in the town of Gardiner or Gardiner township except for dinners at the Mt. Brauhaus and an occasional need to stop at the Mt. Deli. The town of Gardiner and its residents (at least some) have made it clear they wish not to provide services that would draw money from visitors. I do not see any problems with saying no to development, but you can’t also keep the people from entering your township as well. The U.S. has long since grown from the days of colonies and territory’s.

Top
#18201 - 03/06/06 04:17 PM Re: Preserve neighbors speak up [Re: Smike]
Pamela Offline
stranger

Registered: 03/05/06
Posts: 17
Loc: Gardiner NY
Ok, I said it badly the first time. I'm not suggesting that visitors to Mohonk pay taxes. (Oh, and actually I do pay taxes for roads outside Gardiner...it's called county, state, federal taxes in the form of tolls, property taxes, usage taxes such as for every gallon of gas I buy, etc. )

I'm suggesting that most property owners in Gardiner pay more than their fair share of the local tax burdan, and Mohonk does not. It's that simple, and that unfair.
If they accept vistors, and charge them to use the land, which they do, then they (Mohonk Preserve) should be charged as any other commercially zoned property.

Top
#18202 - 03/06/06 04:40 PM Re: Preserve neighbors speak up [Re: Pamela]
Timbo Online   content
addict

Registered: 12/23/99
Posts: 696
Loc: Delaware
Except if they had to pay taxes they could not afford to operate and would need to sell the land, probably to someone who would build 300 houses and a golf course.

As I recall, this was the problem the Smiley's faced when they gave away the land to begin with. You can't afford the taxes on that much land if it is not producing income.

I know is tough to take for those living nearby, especially if the Preserve continues to acquire land, thereby lowering the taxable acreage.

You could allow development and let the businesses pay taxes, but then you lose the quiet (well, such as it is with 299 and all) rural community setting. The town has made it clear they do not want to go down this road, denying all development.

Just curious, would the residents feel a bit more friendly to the Preserve if the Preserve offered free membership to all Gardiner residents ? At least then there would be a trade. Residents pay an increased tax burden, but they get to use the land for free. I know the taxes are far greater than a $100 membership, but it's a start, right ?

Anyway, I'm a foreigner; maybe I should just remain silent.

TS


Edited by Timbo (03/06/06 05:16 PM)
_________________________

Top
#18203 - 03/06/06 05:05 PM Re: Preserve neighbors speak up [Re: Pamela]
oenophore Online   confused
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/24/01
Posts: 5981
Loc: 212 land
Might you say that proximity to the Preserve enhances property value without affecting assessed valuation?
_________________________

Top
#18204 - 03/06/06 05:47 PM Re: Preserve neighbors speak up [Re: Pamela]
GeeVee Offline
Auto Reply

Registered: 11/14/00
Posts: 4403
Loc: Brooklyn, NY
(Oh, and actually I do pay taxes for roads outside Gardiner...it's called county, state, federal taxes in the form of tolls, property taxes, usage taxes such as for every gallon of gas I buy, etc. )

And by the same logic those of us who live elsewhere in the state are paying for Gardiner's roads - however I'm not suggesting that you shouldn't be allowed to drive through Brooklyn. And even though I'm only a short distance from the Brooklyn Botanic Garden I'm not going to spend my time pissing and moaning that it drains the tax base because it's also a not-for-profit entity, nor am I going to suggest that in return they should should give everyone in Brooklyn free access.
_________________________
So long as you can boogie you ain't too old.

Top
#18205 - 03/06/06 07:39 PM Re: Preserve neighbors speak up [Re: GeeVee]
Timbo Online   content
addict

Registered: 12/23/99
Posts: 696
Loc: Delaware
Quote:


And by the same logic those of us who live elsewhere in the state are paying for Gardiner's roads - however I'm not suggesting that you shouldn't be allowed to drive through Brooklyn. And even though I'm only a short distance from the Brooklyn Botanic Garden I'm not going to spend my time pissing and moaning that it drains the tax base because it's also a not-for-profit entity, nor am I going to suggest that in return they should should give everyone in Brooklyn free access.




No, but playing devil's advocate here, if the Botanic Garden bought up or took over half of Brooklyn, tore down all buildings and turned it into a large botanical garden preventing development and eliminating the majority of the tax base, thereby greatly increasing your tax burden, then how would you feel ? Yes, you have a very nice large park next door, but now your taxes have multipied by maybe 3-5 times (or more).

Is this a defensible position ? I don't know, but it's worth pondering.
_________________________

Top
#18206 - 03/06/06 07:45 PM Re: Preserve neighbors speak up [Re: Timbo]
MarcC Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/10/00
Posts: 3532
Quote:

No, but playing devil's advocate here, if the Botanic Garden bought up or took over half of Brooklyn, tore down all buildings and turned it into a large botanical garden preventing development and eliminating the majority of the tax base, thereby greatly increasing your tax burden, then how would you feel ? Yes, you have a very nice large park next door, but now your taxes have multipied by maybe 3-5 times (or more).

Is this a defensible position ? I don't know, but it's worth pondering.




If it happened next week? Maybe not - I don't know, either. But regarding the Preserve (originally Trust), we are talking about a conservation easement and tax agreement that happened about 50 years ago. I find it shockingly naive for any Gardiner resident to be railing about it now.

[Edited to fix crappy spelling]


Edited by MarcC (03/07/06 02:08 AM)
_________________________
- Marc

Top
#18207 - 03/06/06 10:36 PM Re: Preserve neighbors speak up [Re: MarcC]
dalguard Offline
veteran

Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 1515
Loc: CT
Besides, I thought Gardiner was anti-development, which is how all this hullabaloo started. I can't keep track of it all and as a climber, my sole interest and concern is with preserving climbing access. I'm fond of Kent but I don't appreciate a climbing forum being used to attack the Preserve over non-climbing issues. As long as the Preserve is pro-climber I'm going to lean towards being pro-Preserve.

Top
#18208 - 03/06/06 11:23 PM Re: Preserve neighbors speak up [Re: dalguard]
pedestrian Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/05/02
Posts: 2244
Loc: a heavily fortified bunker!
Dawn--

I think there are at least a few people in Gardiner who are anti-development in principle, but who nonetheless had a bad taste left in their mouths by the practical effects of the zoning proposal. These people were in favor of development limitations in the beginning, but were rather surprised when the proposal came back and said "above x feet altitude." When they realized that these restrictions might have real economic effects on real people.

Faced with such a quandary, what's a tree hugger to do? Well, it seems that members of the town board are willing to let the matter be settled by the courts: if someone can stand up and show that they suffered a hardship, they may have a case.

Top
Page 3 of 5 < 1 2 3 4 5 >


Moderator:  webmaster 
Sponsored