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#18219 - 03/13/06 09:44 PM Re: Ends Justify Means [Re: Smike]
Smike Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/01/01
Posts: 3143
Loc: in your backyard
Second, for a concrete and easily verifiable example of the Preserve's misrepresentation of the facts, I invite everyone to the MP visitor center. Take a look at their model of the Preserve boundaries. All the way down the eastern escarpment of the ridge they show their property line as being well onto their neighbors property.


Come on Kent, what “official” land map does that represent?

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#18220 - 03/13/06 09:57 PM Re: Ends Justify Means [Re: Kent]
pedestrian Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/05/02
Posts: 2244
Loc: a heavily fortified bunker!
Quote:

Also Nate, to bring you up to speed, the Gardiner Ridge Zoning Law passed back in January.




You know, that's unfortunate. The zoning law sucks.

I still think you spent way too much time antagonizing the Preserve and, separately, antagonizing climbers; and not enough time fighting against the zoning proposal within the legitimate realm of due process.

You've spread a lot of allegations about the Preserve but most of the rest of us have little choice but to perceive it as he-said-she-said.

Unfortunately fighting the zoning proposal would have meant developing a counter proposal and probably the sad fact of the matter is that doing so would have cost money.

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#18221 - 03/14/06 12:47 AM Re: Ends Justify Means [Re: pedestrian]
Kent Offline
old hand

Registered: 01/21/00
Posts: 1036
Loc: The Bayards
I just got down off the ridge. It's very slick up there, even just scrambling. Last night though it was amazingly beautiful. Bright moonlight shining down through dense fog in the woods.

Regarding landowner particpation in the law; we went to and spoke at Zoning Advisory Committee Meetings and Town Board Meetings for over a year. Landowners came up with lots of suggestions as part of the zoning law development process, a very small number of which were adopted. Each substantive concession to landowners was accompanied by even more substantive additional restrictions that outweighed concessions. At the end of the day we were a small handful of landowners against Stealtheridge, the Mohonk Preserve, and a great many people who asked no sacrifice of themselves. As someone once said here on gunks.commies, "regulatory takings are a great idea as long as it's not your land being taken". So that's the law of the land in Gardiner for now. The pendulum will swing though, as it inevtiably does. The only problem is that the elderly on the ridge who are most severely affected will probably be dead and gone by then.

As for antagonizing the Preserve board and management, if the shoe fits, they are going to have to wear it. If they bully their neighbors you can count on reading about it here on gunks.com. I'm all ears if they want to dialog, either here or in person, but it seems like they are consumed by their own spin. Anytime they are subjected to legitimate criticism and earnest questioning, they offer prevaricating corpo speak and/or they then withdraw. It's neither genuine nor convincing.

Most climbers have been very supportive. Some I've talked to at length and some have even met a few of my affected neighbors so maybe it's easier for them to walk a mile in our shoes. There are a very few climbers who seemingly have a very strong sense of entitlement to other peoples land. I invite them to move to Cuba. I hear there is some good climbing there.

I don't count you among the aforementioned future Cuban Climbers Coalition Nate. You are still welcome to borrow my ice tools if we ever have ice again. I don't place Eddie in that group either. He gets a free pass for his sheer audacity.

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#18222 - 03/14/06 12:51 AM Re: Ends Justify Means [Re: Smike]
Kent Offline
old hand

Registered: 01/21/00
Posts: 1036
Loc: The Bayards
Kerhonkson just pass a zoning bill that does not allow for cars on blocks in my back yard.

Smike, I kind of like cars on blocks. It helps create the true country look of a rural community, rather than the leafy, oh so carefully designer designed, PC faux country look of New Westchester (towns around the Preserve). Old junk cars help hold down property values too, so people who actually work in the community might be able to afford to buy a house in the community. If you can't keep them, bring them over to my house in the Trapps Gateway. They will fit right in.

Edited to add:
Better yet, Rob tells me he's looking for a way to top last years Christmas light show at his house. Maybe we could stack them up in his front yard and rig them together.

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#18223 - 03/14/06 02:12 AM Re: Ends Justify Means [Re: Kent]
Smike Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/01/01
Posts: 3143
Loc: in your backyard
Better yet, Rob tells me he's looking for a way to top last years Christmas light show at his house. Maybe we could stack them up in his front yard and rig them together

Rob needs no help, hes quite the master at pyrotechnics involving his trees, down electoral lines, and fires in our front yard.

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#18224 - 04/07/06 12:04 AM Re: Preserve neighbors speak up [Re: MohonkPreserve]
smokejumper1 Offline
journeyman

Registered: 04/06/06
Posts: 75
Loc: NY, CA, Deutschland
Quote:



As landowners who have worked directly with Mohonk Preserve on land transactions, we would like to express our informed opinion of this upstanding organization that serves our communities in many ways. Through our own separate transactions, we have worked with the Preserve on conservation measures such as conservation easements or gifts and sales of land to help increase the amount of open, protected space on the ridge.

We choose to work with the Preserve because of its integrity and shared commitment to the protection of the natural resources that create the uniqueness of our region. Through the Preserve’s Land Protection Program, we have been able to include our lands in the legacy of the Shawangunk Ridge to benefit our communities’ future generations.

In addition to fully endorsing the Preserve’s Land Protection Program, we also support the Preserve for its dedication to land stewardship, field research, and the education of thousands of students annually, and for providing peaceful recreational opportunities.

June Finer
Anka Angrist
Burt Angrist
Sven Hartmann
Connie Beckley
Paul Karmas
Lucy Karmas
Fran Dunwell
Barbara Rubin
Gloria Finger
Frank Finger
Gary Finger
Nicola Tyson
Bob Anderberg
Elaine Laflamme
Dr. Stephen Larsen
Dr. Robin Larsen
James Milne
Judy Milne
Mary Davis
Jesse Davis
Bob Johnston
Virginia Johnston
Sarah Johnston








The Mohonk Preserve should be ashamed at the above list. Of the aprox. 200 neighbors, only 13 families signed their letter, that's just over 5%. One of the signatures is Robert Anderberg (Vice President for the Open Space Institute), who obviosly has close ties to both the MP and Glen Hoagland. I also believe Robert Larsen works for the preserve (his partner is Barbara Rubin). I don't know about the rest of the signatures on the list. Are MP's nieghborly relations so bad that they rely on employees, employee family members, and business associates to sign their letters?

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#18225 - 04/19/06 04:40 PM Re: Preserve neighbors speak up [Re: smokejumper1]
Kent Offline
old hand

Registered: 01/21/00
Posts: 1036
Loc: The Bayards
An interesting post Smokey.

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