Forget tricks - go to Janette's website (cliffmama.com) and check out the pics of Johnny-somebody-or-other climbing MT. It freakin' diagrams the roof sequence move-by-move!

It's Johnny on the Rocks

FYI, I pm'd Fear as I know some people don't like beta.

since the topic is about the nears, thought to relate that Broken Sling kicked my ass on Sunday. I thought I was pretty competant on 8s before this. The initial climbing before and including placing my first pro left me done and required 3 long hangs to finish the climb. Thankfully, BD2 didn't get a hand cramp from all the time he had me locked off.
Might have been different for me on TR, as Eastertime, Far from the Maddening Crowd, and even Good Friday felt way easier later that day when following. Of course, these climbs were also more of a face climb.

I had a similar 'grade the climb, not the climber' conversation earlier this week. Is the process scientific? Drkodos can tackle that. But it is iterative, as with a theory subject to modification upon further testing. And going back to the point that started all this, I'd agree that it's not that useful to compare the difficulty of Son of Easy O's P2 with High E, other than to say that both pitches involve large handholds.

Since the OP was talking about 8s in the Nears, I'll shift back on topic. Both Broken Sling and Farewell to Arms were mentioned, as was Alphonse. All 8s, but hardly equal. Alphonse has one 5.8 move on it, whereas the other two are considerably more burly and continuous at the grade. Yet in my opinion, they're the climbs to go for. Farewell is a climb that anyone who gets a charge out of the crimpy puzzles that Annie Oh! presents will probably enjoy. As a kid I liked to play on a jungle gym, and I'm reminded of the fun that was on both of these climbs.

Grades Scientific? What? If we were all built exactly the same as human beings that conversation *might* not be waste of bandwidth.

Screw the grades, if you climb by the grades you will only be fighting your own mind of how things 'should' be, and try to either rationalize a climb to fit the grade or curse it to no end as a sandbag.

I don't mean take off on 11 r's when you’re looking for 8's but enjoy the routes for what they are, infinite variations of movement over rock. Sometimes you don’t get to complete all the moves but that’s what they make tomorrow for.