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#20247 - 05/10/06 08:45 PM TR - Mt. Shasta's Avalanche Gulch - May 5-6, 2006
nerdom Offline
Pooh-Bah *

Registered: 09/07/01
Posts: 2483
Loc: Davis Sq., MA
Photo trip report here:

Photo TR
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#20248 - 05/16/06 02:06 PM Re: TR - Mt. Shasta's Avalanche Gulch - May 5-6, 2006 [Re: nerdom]
andrew Offline

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Registered: 11/15/99
Posts: 1816
Loc: Denver, CO
really nice TR. sounds like a fun trip. skiing volcanos is just about the most fun thing in the world!
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#20249 - 05/16/06 02:06 PM Re: TR - Mt. Shasta's Avalanche Gulch - May 5-6, 2006 [Re: nerdom]
andrew Offline

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Registered: 11/15/99
Posts: 1816
Loc: Denver, CO
really nice TR. sounds like a fun trip. skiing volcanos is just about the most fun thing in the world!
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#20250 - 05/17/06 08:07 PM Re: TR - Mt. Shasta's Avalanche Gulch - May 5-6, 2006 [Re: andrew]
nerdom Offline
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Registered: 09/07/01
Posts: 2483
Loc: Davis Sq., MA
skiing volcanos is just about the most fun thing in the world!

you ain't kidding, man! I can't wait to go back!
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#20251 - 05/22/06 02:40 PM Re: TR - Mt. Shasta's Avalanche Gulch - May 5-6, 2006 [Re: nerdom]
crackers Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 03/21/01
Posts: 3424
Loc: pdx
rad! looks great!

you need a pair of ascent skis man, you'll be SO much happier...

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#20252 - 05/22/06 02:42 PM Re: TR - Mt. Shasta's Avalanche Gulch - May 5-6, 2006 [Re: crackers]
nerdom Offline
Pooh-Bah *

Registered: 09/07/01
Posts: 2483
Loc: Davis Sq., MA
Nah, too much extra weight! I'm going splitboard as soon as I can afford it!
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#20253 - 05/22/06 03:05 PM Re: TR - Mt. Shasta's Avalanche Gulch - May 5-6, 2006 [Re: nerdom]
crackers Offline
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Registered: 03/21/01
Posts: 3424
Loc: pdx
You should talk to Zack about splitboards...they are all that they are cracked up to be.

I much prefer my 120cm ascent skis and the rigidity of a real snowboard.

If you must, word has it that the priors are the best.

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#20254 - 05/22/06 04:53 PM Re: TR - Mt. Shasta's Avalanche Gulch - May 5-6, 2006 [Re: crackers]
nerdom Offline
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Registered: 09/07/01
Posts: 2483
Loc: Davis Sq., MA
I've heard great things about the latest Burton S-series, with the Voile interface (Burton apparently made the wise decision to get out of that game, since Voile had already perfected it), as far as rigidity goes. Of course, at about $900-$1000, I'm not ready to go there yet. I'll make due with snowshoes for the time being (out outpaced my buddies who were on skis & skins once the going got even mildly steep; they were much faster on the flats).
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#20255 - 05/23/06 03:55 AM Re: TR - Mt. Shasta's Avalanche Gulch - May 5-6, 2006 [Re: crackers]
intrepid02 Offline
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Registered: 06/24/02
Posts: 1421
Loc: Boulder
Do you have one pair of boots that you can use with the skis and the board?

I am also leaning towards getting a splitboard next season. Was thinking I'd probably get a Voile.

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#20256 - 05/23/06 04:02 AM Re: TR - Mt. Shasta's Avalanche Gulch - May 5-6, 2006 [Re: intrepid02]
pedestrian Offline
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Registered: 08/05/02
Posts: 2244
Loc: a heavily fortified bunker!
Quote:

Do you have one pair of boots that you can use with the skis and the board?




Either get something like a Karhu Meta and use soft snowboard, boots, or rip the binding off the Meta install Dynafit toepieces and go on an Alpine Touring boot. You will probably want the stiff sole of the AT boot sooner or later if you are booting up or down technical terrain out west.

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#20257 - 05/23/06 01:17 PM Re: TR - Mt. Shasta's Avalanche Gulch - May 5-6, 2006 [Re: intrepid02]
nerdom Offline
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Registered: 09/07/01
Posts: 2483
Loc: Davis Sq., MA
intrepid:

I used my leather mountaineering boots (La Sportiva Karakorams) on both Shasta and in Tuckerman's and was very satisfied with the performance. Others have recommended good AT boots. On Shasta, I spoke to a few splitters, and they were totally happy with their soft snowboard boots (they had strap on crampons that fit them, for the steeper sections).
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#20258 - 05/23/06 01:26 PM Re: channelling Zacres [Re: intrepid02]
crackers Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 03/21/01
Posts: 3424
Loc: pdx
hmm. he just made his wife have a baby, so he probably won't be visiting here any time soon...

lets see:
voile's suck, get hardboots and bomber bindings, and the prior boards are the best.

that should cover his splitbroken rant.

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#20259 - 05/23/06 01:34 PM Re: channelling Zacres [Re: crackers]
pedestrian Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/05/02
Posts: 2244
Loc: a heavily fortified bunker!
The zachres splitboard rant would probably sound more like "think twice before using a splitboard at all if you're in hard boots"

If you're like him, you may need a different stance for hard boots which is not offered by splitboard bindings due to mounting restrictions. Other people seem to have no problem. Your mileage may vary.

After trying a lot of splitboards he's gone back to ascent skis.


Edited by pedestrian (05/23/06 01:35 PM)

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#20260 - 05/23/06 04:23 PM Re: channelling Zacres [Re: pedestrian]
andrew Offline

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Registered: 11/15/99
Posts: 1816
Loc: Denver, CO
or you could just skip all that nonsense and get skis!
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#20261 - 05/23/06 04:30 PM Re: channelling Zacres [Re: andrew]
nerdom Offline
Pooh-Bah *

Registered: 09/07/01
Posts: 2483
Loc: Davis Sq., MA
HA! I've actually thought about it. I skiied for a bunch of years before I started boarding. But the older I get, the more conscientious I am about the need to keep my knees intact! After all, I gotta walk on 'em the rest of my life! That said, I'm still toying with the idea of picking up a used pair for occasional two-planking (the majority of my powderhound friends are skiiers).
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#20262 - 05/23/06 06:16 PM Re: channelling Zacres [Re: nerdom]
CrackBoy Offline
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Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 2435
Loc: Republic of Davis
actually i think zach rides his splitboard with hard boots
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#20263 - 05/23/06 06:18 PM Re: channelling Zacres [Re: CrackBoy]
pedestrian Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/05/02
Posts: 2244
Loc: a heavily fortified bunker!
not anymore he ditched his splitboard after I rode Rose with him, had too much trouble keeping the nose up in powder.

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#20264 - 05/26/06 06:03 PM Re: channelling Zacres [Re: pedestrian]
zachres Offline
addict

Registered: 04/03/03
Posts: 495
Loc: In the midst of a "psychotic b...
Howdy kids!

My boy is 6 days old, and we have lot's of family here..... "helping." Thought I'd take a few minutes to surf around.

Anywho; Splitboards = firewood in my book... can't stand them. However, that doesn't mean that they aren't appropriate for many people out there. If you use a splitboard, the optimal set-up is to use soft boots and strap bindings.

Now, I use hard boots for two reasons:
1. I absolutley love the way hard boots ride.
2. I like to climb and ride stuff that is steeper and sketchier than Shasta. This is why I initially made the switch.

Simply put: You can not get the correct stance angles for hardboots, using the Voile interface... trust me, I've tested every single splitboard on the market. Many people run AT boots on splitboards, but they use the same angles as they would with soft boots... stupid, and not any fun... plus, you run the risk of seriously screwing up your knees.

This is my set-up right now:
- Donek, Incline 168 (has a 24.1 cm waist... significantly skinnier than a standard free-ride board, so it's just right for hard boots)
- Garmont Mega Ride Boots
- Bomber TD2 bindings... customized for weight loss
- Karhu, Meta approach skis, mounted with Dynafit toe pieces and Voike heel lifters. I also riveted skins to them.

Since switching from splitboards to this set-up, i have found that I am much more efficient climbing, and my legs stay fresher.

Zach
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#20265 - 05/26/06 06:56 PM Re: channelling Zacres [Re: zachres]
nerdom Offline
Pooh-Bah *

Registered: 09/07/01
Posts: 2483
Loc: Davis Sq., MA
Simply put: You can not get the correct stance angles for hardboots, using the Voile interface... trust me, I've tested every single splitboard on the market. Many people run AT boots on splitboards, but they use the same angles as they would with soft boots... stupid, and not any fun... plus, you run the risk of seriously screwing up your knees.



zach:

First off, congrats on the birth of your son!

You wanna expound on the above quote for me? Are you referring to the foot stance for descent mode? If so, how and why do your angles differ for hard boots vs. soft boots? I ride 0' back, 15' forward (and I'm goofy). I didn't adjust the bindings when I wore my "hard" boots (i.e., leather mountaineering boots). When you speak of "hard" boots, are you talking about the double plastic variety or something like that (i.e, hard outer shell)? Please enlighten me!

Also, what is the total set-up cost for your ascent ski set-up (i.e., skis, bindings, skis, etc.)?

edited to add: I'm leaving out comments on your implicit diss of my boarding ability re: your comment on Shasta . . .


Edited by nerdom (05/26/06 06:59 PM)
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#20266 - 05/26/06 07:27 PM Re: channelling Zacres [Re: nerdom]
pedestrian Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/05/02
Posts: 2244
Loc: a heavily fortified bunker!
Zach - Congratulations. And send a "big up" to Francesca for bringing the little bugger into the world.

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#20267 - 05/26/06 07:54 PM Re: channelling Zacres [Re: pedestrian]
oenophore Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/24/01
Posts: 5979
Loc: 212 land
Ditto congratulations, Zachres. Is the altered title of the thread appropriate here?
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#20268 - 05/26/06 11:25 PM Re: channelling Zacres [Re: oenophore]
zachres Offline
addict

Registered: 04/03/03
Posts: 495
Loc: In the midst of a "psychotic b...
Thanks guys... The boy (Jack) and his Mom are both doing great...

Nerdom - No diss on Shasta That's actually one of my favorite places to go snowboarding in the world.

As for angles:
1. I define "hard boots" as either snowboard-specific hard, plastic shelled boots; ski boots; or AT boots. About the only place in the US with a good selcetion of snowboard-specific hard boot is www.bomberonline.com

2. To get the most out of hard boots, you need to run significantly higher angels than with soft boots. I run 45/45. many people like to back the rear foot off by about 5 degrees, but this just works for me.
In order to run angles like this, you need a skinnier board than most of the freeride shapes out there. Optimally, you want the toe and heel of your boots to sit as close to the edges of the board as possible without "booting out." (Mount the bindings, then check them with the boots in them against an adjustable carpenter's square.. I check it at 60 degrees. You can also just eye-ball it)

Depending on the width of the board I am on, I will adjust my angles. The majority of hard-booters out there tend to be piste oriented, and they use narrow, long boards.... we're talking 18cm waists... they can run angles in the high 50s.

The reason that you want hihger angles with hard boots, is that your power and "feel" is in the cuff of the boot. You want to initiate turns from the hips, looking down the fall line... there is a lot to it. I would check out the articles about angles, turn technique, etc.. on bomberonline.


Using hard boots changes the way you snowboard, but for me it has been all for the better. I'm not a "switch" type of guy, anyway... I like steep, fast, backcountry lines.

As for the price of my set-up??? Couldn't tell you exactly. I got most of it for free. I would guess that it comes in at around the same price as a splitboard.

I would reccomend talking to both Donek and Bomber about demo'ing their stuff at a resort, before committing to hard boots for a backcountry set-up.

Zach
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#20269 - 05/29/06 02:23 AM Re: channelling Zacres [Re: zachres]
pedestrian Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/05/02
Posts: 2244
Loc: a heavily fortified bunker!
Zach, compared to snowboard-specific hardboots, do you find the increased lateral stiffness of the Mega Rides to be a problem?

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#20270 - 05/29/06 04:43 PM Re: channelling Zacres [Re: pedestrian]
zachres Offline
addict

Registered: 04/03/03
Posts: 495
Loc: In the midst of a "psychotic b...
Yes and no.... there are softer AT boots available, like many of the Dynafits and some of the Scarpas. There are also a range of softer and harder, snowboard hard bootts.

I find that I can get the right amount of stiffness out of the 4 buckles of the Mega Rides. I run my back boot a little looser in the cuff than the front boot. This allows me to "drive" with the front boot and shift my hips forward and backward while in a low stance.

Everyone is different, and with hard boots, this means that everyone needs to tinker to get everything dialed in right. It helps to spend some time at a resort with your tool kit and some riders that are better than you.

Fortunately, the obscure nature of hardboots creates a sense of community. It's really easy to find other hard boot snowboarders who are more than happy to offer advice, criticism, and technique lessons.

Zach
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