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#21181 - 06/06/06 07:48 PM Re: Dear Glen Hoagland [Re: drkodos]
phlan Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/11/00
Posts: 2778
Loc: Gardiner, NY
I don't know if you care and I'm not trying to change anyone's mind.

However, these are the facts.

The Preserve owns and manages all of Millbrook climbing north of Westward Ha.

They also own and manage almost all of the Nears. This makes them, like it or not, the manager of resources of the lion's share of climbing in the Gunks. As a boulderer*, I choose to support them and most climbers that I know support them as well.

Ok, commence with the devil horns salutes everyone.
666!!!

*I'm not a climber anymore. Yes, I am a boulderer now. Sometimes I still tie in to a rope, get a little higher off the deck and have gear dangling from my waist, but this poodle is not a climber. Not any more. Ha!


Edited by phlan (06/07/06 02:24 AM)
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#21182 - 06/06/06 08:37 PM Re: Dear Glen Hoagland [Re: phlan]
smokejumper1 Offline
journeyman

Registered: 04/06/06
Posts: 75
Loc: NY, CA, Deutschland
Quote:

I don't know if you care and I'm not trying to change anyone's mind.

However, these are the facts.

The Preserve owns and manages all of Millbrook climbing north of Westward Ha.

They also own and manage almost all of the Nears. This makes them, like it or not, the manager of resources of the lion's share of climbing in the Gunks. As a climber, I choose to support them and most climbers that I know support them as well.

Ok, commence with the devil horns salutes everyone.
666!!!




No Soul.

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#21183 - 06/06/06 09:01 PM Re: Dear Glen Hoagland [Re: phlan]
Kent Offline
old hand

Registered: 01/21/00
Posts: 1038
Loc: The Bayards
More accurately Chris, the Preserve owns roughly half of Millbrook, and roughly two-thirds of the Nears. There are nine pieces of land between the beginning of the Nears and the no mans land of the Bayards that are independently owned and go to the top of the ridge.

Your support of the Preserve, no matter their conduct, echoes supporters of President Richard Nixon and the Vietnam War effort at the height of the anti-war protests in the late sixties and early seventies, when they loudly proclaimed, "My Country, Right or Wrong".


Edited by Kent (06/06/06 09:19 PM)

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#21184 - 06/06/06 09:11 PM Re: Dear Glen Hoagland [Re: phlan]
drkodos Offline
addict

Registered: 05/02/04
Posts: 674
Loc: Chattanooga, TN
Quote:

I don't know if you care and I'm not trying to change anyone's mind.

However, these are the facts.

The Preserve owns and manages all of Millbrook climbing north of Westward Ha.

They also own and manage almost all of the Nears. This makes them, like it or not, the manager of resources of the lion's share of climbing in the Gunks. As a climber, I choose to support them and most climbers that I know support them as well.

Ok, commence with the devil horns salutes everyone.
666!!!




So what.

I will climb in the Trapps whenever I want to and I will not pay a penny.

MOST climbers do not support the Gunks. Maybe most of the ones you know, then I suggest you meet more people. I have supported the preserve for 25 years and I will not do so anymore because I am sick of their politics, their manuevering, and their lying.

I do not support closing the cliff for filthy rotten birds.
I do not want to pay for them to buy more land.
I do not ever use the visitor center.


There is not one thing that the preserve does that I feel the need to support. Not one. They are a bullsh*t organization that is intent on one thing: getting bigger and more bureaucratic. If all climbing along the ridge was lost I would not be upset in the least. There are thousands of other places to climb, and even if all of them were eliminated, I would still not care that much.

Climbing is a selfish pursuit. Period.

The day they start to support me and my own missions, I will reconsider.

Without the preserve, the rocks are still climbable.

I know that MANY (not all and maybe not you) people like yourself need these little orgs to feel like their lives have some value. So have at it. I never told you or anyone else to not support it, did I? I am not lobbying anyone else, just stating my own position that there will be glaciers in Las Vegas before the Mohonk Preserve ever gets another penny from me.



PS: I have never been approached for a membership in the over 250 times I have climbed at the Bank.







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#21185 - 06/06/06 09:28 PM Re: Dear Glen Hoagland [Re: phlan]
Kent Offline
old hand

Registered: 01/21/00
Posts: 1038
Loc: The Bayards
And for anyone wanting to put Phlan's (aka Chris Moratz, chair of the Gunk's Climbers Coalition) comments into further perspective, according to his gunks.com bio he is now a self-described "poodle for the Preserve, and proud of it". His perspective and enthusiastically blind support of the Preserve are exactly why he, the GCC, and the GCC climbers Chris represents are no friends to independent landowners in the Nears and at Millbrook.


Edited by Kent (06/07/06 02:08 AM)

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#21186 - 06/06/06 09:36 PM Re: Dear Glen Hoagland [Re: Kent]
alicex4 Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/05/00
Posts: 3400
"Your support of the Preserve, no matter their conduct, echoes supporters of President Richard Nixon and the Vietnam War effort at the height of the anti-war protests in the late sixties and early seventies, when they loudly proclaimed, "My Country, Right or Wrong". "


Nixon ended the Vietnam War.


PS Kodos, there are 20 some acres for sale in Bayards



“At the risk of seeming ridiculous, let me say that a true revolutionary is guided by great feelings of love.”


Edited by alicex4 (06/06/06 09:39 PM)

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#21187 - 06/06/06 09:51 PM Re: Dear Glen Hoagland [Re: alicex4]
Kent Offline
old hand

Registered: 01/21/00
Posts: 1038
Loc: The Bayards
Quote:

Nixon ended the Vietnam War.




Nixon also invaded Cambodia with ground forces on April 25th, 1970, after a year of bombing, as part of the prosecution of the Vietnam War. The Kent State Massacre occurred during anti-war protests nine days later. At the same time, in demonstrations of support for the war, supporters were chanting "My Country, Right or Wrong" as well as the equally idiotic "America, Love it or Leave It". I remember these things quite clearly, or as clearly as can be reasonably expected through the fog of 36 years.


Quote:

PS Kodos, there are 20 some acres for sale in Bayards




The acreage is 16.2 to be exact. Edited to add Alicex4 might be referring to a second piece in the Bayards I had forgotten about that is 20 some acres as she suggests.


Edited by Kent (06/06/06 11:53 PM)

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#21188 - 06/06/06 10:13 PM Re: Dear Glen Hoagland [Re: Kent]
smokejumper1 Offline
journeyman

Registered: 04/06/06
Posts: 75
Loc: NY, CA, Deutschland
Quote:

Quote:

Nixon ended the Vietnam War.




Nixon also invaded Cambodia with ground forces on April 25th, 1970, after a year of bombing, as part of the prosecution of the Vietnam War. The Kent State Massacre occurred during anti-war protests nine days later. At the same time, in demonstrations of support for the war, supporters were chanting "My Country, Right or Wrong" as well as the equally idiotic "America, Love it or Leave It". I remember these things quite clearly, or as clearly as can be reasonably expected through the fog of 36 years


Quote:

PS Kodos, there are 20 some acres for sale in Bayards




The acreage is 16.2 to be exact.





The Preserve was trying to quit claim the other 3.8 acres to alicex4

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#21189 - 06/07/06 01:08 AM Re: Dear Glen Hoagland [Re: Kent]
smokejumper1 Offline
journeyman

Registered: 04/06/06
Posts: 75
Loc: NY, CA, Deutschland
Quote:

More accurately Chris, the Preserve owns roughly half of Millbrook, and roughly two-thirds of the Nears. There are nine pieces of land between the beginning of the Nears and the no mans land of the Bayards that are independently owned and go to the top of the ridge.

Your support of the Preserve, no matter their conduct, echoes supporters of President Richard Nixon and the Vietnam War effort at the height of the anti-war protests in the late sixties and early seventies, when they loudly proclaimed, "My Country, Right or Wrong".





It looks like the Mohonk Preserve has a well trained poodle. They brainwashed that poor dog into thinking they own most of the ridge. Bad Fido Bad Fido.

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#21190 - 06/07/06 02:10 AM Re: Dear Glen Hoagland [Re: smokejumper1]
phlan Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/11/00
Posts: 2778
Loc: Gardiner, NY
That does not contradict what I said. I see all of you have done your homework and I commend you all for doing such a good job. I am so glad we are all in agreement on so many things.

I do stick to the facts in that the Preserve does own and manage the lions share of the significant rock climbing resources of the Gunks. If you'd like to kid around, go ahead I have a good sense of humor.

You're barking up the wrong tree however. Land acquisition is not handled by Glenn Hoagland or the Preserve. If you've got all these issues with land acquisition, why don't you talk to OSI. Putting these things on an internet forum is not going to get you any response.

OSI is the 900 pound gorilla of land acquisition in the Gunks for public use. Their web site and contact information is public. www.osiny.com. Talk to them.

As Museumdork pointed out, it's no wonder Mr. Hoagland does not respond to you. I would certainly not if I were him. As you know I'm not going to get in the middle of this feud. Just a little piece of advice for my doggy friends.

Chris
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