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#21347 - 06/07/06 03:19 PM Neurosis vs anaysis... [Re: irisharehere]
D75 Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 03/18/05
Posts: 293
Loc: Holiday Inn Express
Quote:

Giardia cysts are extremely temperature tolerant.




Maybe, but something must cause them to die. Else all the fresh water would have been impotable centuries ago.

Think about this epidemiologically... There is some probability, to be sure, that the next glass of water you drink could be contaminated, regardless of its source.

Think about differential equations here. If the rate of pathogen death does not exceed the sum of the rates of introduction of the pathogen and its reproductive rate, then the water will be certainly harmful. And likely long ago.

Native Ams drank the water for a millenium or so, and were fertile - (What Darwin really says - not that they were the strongest, but that they were able to reproduce.)

Perhaps someday an anthropologist will find the devices they used to purify the water.

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#21348 - 06/07/06 04:04 PM Re: Neurosis vs anaysis... [Re: D75]
irisharehere Offline
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Registered: 12/06/01
Posts: 1658
Loc: Danbury CT
Fertility is largely irrelevant to GI diseases such as Giardia. There isn't much chance of you dying, or being rendered sterile, from a case of giardia contracted in the Daks.

However, it will result in a few weeks of GI symptoms you'll regret!

Your arguement has some validity - pathogens in water will die off at a given rate (specific to each pathogen, and the environment it's in). Because of this, as you say, we haven't irreversibly contaminated all the water on earth.

The problem arises though, of the massive increase in the earths population, in general, in the last 2 or 3 centurys, and in the density of people going camping/hiking/climbing/mountainbiking or whatever, in the north american "wilderness". This has led to a large increase in the detectable pollution of areas, and watersources, that were formerly regarded as clean.

As I said, waterborne diseases in the developed world aren't likely to kill you, but for the discomfort they can cause, it's worth it to me to treat my drinking water.

But by all means, go drink from your favourite stream. Might mean more buisness for evil microbiologists and pharma companies!


Edit: I'll be up in New Paltz next weekend - I'll bring a liter of water from the East River - are you willing to drink it?


Edited by irisharehere (06/07/06 04:07 PM)
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#21349 - 06/07/06 05:07 PM Re: SteriPEN [Re: d-elvis]
fallenglass Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 08/01/03
Posts: 276
Loc: cornwall
remember when there was a cup hanging from the water pipe at the uberfall? when was the last time anyone here drank from that pipe? the last time i did, my wife yelled at me ...

edit: ugh ... missed d75's uberfall pipe comment .. nevermind ...


Edited by fallenglass (06/07/06 05:10 PM)

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#21350 - 06/07/06 05:08 PM Re: It is very hard to unlearn your potty training... [Re: D75]
alicex4 Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/05/00
Posts: 3400
"Are you guys really so post-1960 that you have never drunk untreated water? Never drank from the pipe at the Uberfall?"


Drank it at the Uberfall and had no problem. Drank the unfiltered water at Roger's in WV and got zapped with high fever and the feeling that you can't swallow solid food. Took 3 months of antibiotics (after regular doc gave up, he sent me to a specialist, who said Yuck when he put the camera up my nose and down my throat) to beat it out of me. I would still consider the Uberfall, but i don't usually run out of water at the Gunks. But Roger's and anywhere else is right out.

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#21351 - 06/07/06 05:27 PM Re: It is very hard to unlearn your potty training... [Re: alicex4]
D75 Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 03/18/05
Posts: 293
Loc: Holiday Inn Express
I'll be up in New Paltz next weekend - I'll bring a liter of water from the East River - are you willing to drink it?

Hah! I'd take the water from the puddle outside Rockefeller Center before the East River. Preferably after hot summer days, and a fresh rain.

Seriously, the East River drains from too many places that clearly do not meet the backwoods criteria.

Saint Lawrence River would be OK, though.

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#21352 - 06/07/06 05:58 PM Stick to beer, it is safer. [Re: D75]
D75 Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 03/18/05
Posts: 293
Loc: Holiday Inn Express
The responses on this thread are really kind of funny

Just for fun, try wikipedia with the topics "Roman aqueducts" and "Drinking water"

From the second...

Although most fresh water sources are drinkable by humans, they can be a disease vector or cause long-term health problems if they do not meet certain water quality guidelines.

So if you are going to drink from the same source extensively, consider the second part of that sentence.

BTW. About 12% of the household wells in NJ are failing the water standards tests for various reasons.
Oh no! I used to drink well water when I was a kid, but not in NJ. And still drink it from streams.

So if you are going to be at a single location (water source) for a few days, boil the water and save it when you are cooking.

If your sources are not going to be clear, filters will really help. (Like AT in NJ, e.g). That pond with algae probably has a lot of stuff growing in it that won't hurt you, and other stuff that your body will get rid of with some temporary discomfort. And maybe some nasty stuff that is really awful that filtering and boiling won't do jack for.

Your common sense will help, but as a consumer, you have probably already bought into extreme safety and had your common sense threshold altered. The nice thing about that is you can simply avoid thinking and buy American.

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#21353 - 06/07/06 06:41 PM Re: Stick to beer, it is safer. [Re: D75]
Dillbag Offline
old hand

Registered: 05/02/06
Posts: 1130
Loc: "The Town"
Dillbag (that's me) said:

Quote:

So while you may enjoy that "clean" fresh unfiltered taste from a Mountain stream.... I'll stick with filtered Mt. stream water and maybe an unfilter beer later...





D75... You've finally come around to what I said 20 something posts ago
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#21354 - 06/07/06 07:25 PM Re: SteriPEN [Re: d-elvis]
d-elvis Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 04/26/00
Posts: 3650
Loc: Central PA
So...... do I get it or not?
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#21355 - 06/07/06 07:52 PM Re: SteriPEN [Re: d-elvis]
irisharehere Offline
Site Supporter

Registered: 12/06/01
Posts: 1658
Loc: Danbury CT
Yes, get it. But don't rely on it alone, to treat murky water.

The microbiologist in me is wondering about low-tech, easy, pre-SteriPEN treatments...........maybe as simple as a paper coffee filter to get rid of particulates.............
_________________________
I didn't spend nine years in Evil Graduate School to be called "Mr Irish", thank you!

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#21356 - 06/07/06 09:29 PM Re: SteriPEN [Re: d-elvis]
Dillbag Offline
old hand

Registered: 05/02/06
Posts: 1130
Loc: "The Town"
Quote:

So...... do I get it or not?




Come on D! Where are you going that needs something that hightech?

A Brita will work fine on your faucet
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...anethum graveolens cucumis sativus!

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