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#23380 - 08/31/06 06:01 PM Re: A Reasonable Proposal? [Re: learningtolead]
Kent Offline
old hand

Registered: 01/21/00
Posts: 1038
Loc: The Bayards
While Locke said that "no one ought to harm another in his life, health, liberty, or possessions", Adam Smith coined the phrase "life liberty and the pursuit of property" although that phrase has often been incorrectly attributed to Locke.

Disclaimer- the above is the result of a five second google search and so it may be incomplete or even wrong, but I think it's spot on, so to speak.

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#23381 - 09/01/06 03:46 PM Re: A Reasonable Proposal? [Re: RangerRob]
Pamela Offline
stranger

Registered: 03/05/06
Posts: 17
Loc: Gardiner NY
Well, I don't think that buying Awosting Reserve was in their Master Plan, either. It was probably just an opportunistic "fire sale" deal they couldn't pass up. I don't know I've never seen the Master Plan.

I don't want to give away my sources, but suffice it to say that "a little bird told me", but one who flys regularly over the territory in question. Actually, a bus "overflow" parking area was proposed there years ago but was scrapped because that stubborn landowner Bradley didn't want to play ball with the state.

I hope they DON"t PUT IT THERE, as the buses would go right by my house too, and I already have enough added traffic going to Awosting up Beecher Hill, and people trying to get to Tillson Lake. I guess they think it's still a resort.

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#23382 - 09/02/06 02:21 AM Re: A Reasonable Proposal? [Re: Pamela]
RangerRob Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/06/00
Posts: 3765
Loc: Ulster County, NY
I've heard the rumor too Pamela. I don't believe it is anything other than hogwash intended to scare locals and drummed up by someone with an agenda against Parks. The Park can't even affford to get electricity back to their buildings..how in the heck are they going to build a huge access point for buses?? Even if they had the money, they can't make changes like that unless it is firmly stated in the master plan. Look what happened when the idea of a campground at Jenny Lane was introduced. Various special interest groups put the kiabosh on that. I seriously doubt those same special interest groups would allow Parks to go willy nilly installing improvements without a revision of the master plan.

RR

P.S. You have me intrigued now with your secret source! Is it Deepthroat??

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#23383 - 09/02/06 02:25 AM Re: A Reasonable Proposal? [Re: RangerRob]
Mike Rawdon Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/29/99
Posts: 4276
Loc: Poughkeepsie
How many buses go to Minnewaska at the usual entrance? I've never seen a single one.

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#23384 - 09/02/06 02:56 PM Re: A Reasonable Proposal? [Re: Mike Rawdon]
Smike Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/01/01
Posts: 3143
Loc: in your backyard
Quote:

Keep zoning out of my town, and I might actually be able to run a business and live in the same place!





Zoning is a major key element to the prosperity of any given town or region. Where I grew up in Bucks County PA, in Buckingham township has some of the most restrictive zoning in the country. They control almost every aspect of land use and ownership through zoning ordnances and permits. Land values have nearly risen 4X in the last 15 years. Owning land or business in the township has been a very prosperous endeavor due mostly in part to the type of community that has been created. The flip side has been other townships in the same county that have had a lax or hands off approach to zoning. Tinicum township has been one, where in the past it was a vacuum to small businesses that wanted low zoning laws and little oversight by government. Business have failed, environmentally damages in some area are extensive. Land Values have not risen any where near the levels of near by townships. That township has had a recent resurgence in land values and rebuilding of its self into a community since zoning has been implemented into a broader plan. Most of this has been brought on by the people living in the township and pressure from the out flow of people from near by area’s that have become too expensive for them to live in.

Bad or unjust zoning laws are just that, but the concept of zoning as integral part of building a community is a foundation to its prosperity.

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#23385 - 09/05/06 12:26 AM Re: A Reasonable Proposal? [Re: Pamela]
strat Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 04/30/01
Posts: 4242
And all is revealed. NIMBY'S come in all sizes, shapes, and varietys. No Cell phone tower in my backyard, no nuclear power plant in my back yard, no garbage dump in my back yard, no development in my back yard, no mine in my back yard, but, this is a first. NO PARK IN MY BACK YARD, DAMNIT!

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#23386 - 09/06/06 12:05 AM NAM [Re: strat]
Kent Offline
old hand

Registered: 01/21/00
Posts: 1038
Loc: The Bayards
From Strat: "NO PARK IN MY BACK YARD, DAMNIT!"

A park in my backyard is great. Just not one that I have to be ever vigilant against to be sure they don't quit claim my land, or write zoning laws to take conservation easements from me, or "accidentally" mis-post their boundaries on my land.

My favorite new NIMBY variant is NAM or Not After Me, wherein those who have benefited from the reasonably priced housing that a previously more laissez faire zoning law and town government allowed are now clamoring loudly that housing such as theirs should no longer be allowed.

One of Gardiner's town board members lives in a house that is well into SP-3 where new housing is now restricted to the point where it just won't happen at all. One of our town residents who has figured most promimently in the development of the Open Space Plan, lives in a development called Vista Estates, which was, prior to development, a hayfield. The size of his lot won't be allowed under the zoning law proposed for the valley. Vista estates by the way, is the development most prominent in the landscape when climbing in the Nears.

From Smike:"Bad or unjust zoning laws are just that, but the concept of zoning as integral part of building a community is a foundation to its prosperity."

Ahhhhhhh. A reasonable view of zoning. Thank you.

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#23387 - 09/06/06 02:11 PM Re: NAM [Re: Kent]
RangerRob Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/06/00
Posts: 3765
Loc: Ulster County, NY
Damn Smikey...you actually sound....intelligent and shit! Whooda thunk it.

RR

P.S. but then again, I'm a tard, so.......

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#23388 - 09/06/06 02:36 PM Re: NAM [Re: Kent]
strat Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 04/30/01
Posts: 4242
Quote:

From Strat: "NO PARK IN MY BACK YARD, DAMNIT!"

A park in my backyard is great. Just not one that I have to be ever vigilant against to be sure they don't quit claim my land, or write zoning laws to take conservation easements from me, or "accidentally" mis-post their boundaries on my land.

My favorite new NIMBY variant is NAM or Not After Me, wherein those who have benefited from the reasonably priced housing that a previously more laissez faire zoning law and town government allowed are now clamoring loudly that housing such as theirs should no longer be allowed.

One of Gardiner's town board members lives in a house that is well into SP-3 where new housing is now restricted to the point where it just won't happen at all. One of our town residents who has figured most promimently in the development of the Open Space Plan, lives in a development called Vista Estates, which was, prior to development, a hayfield. The size of his lot won't be allowed under the zoning law proposed for the valley. Vista estates by the way, is the development most prominent in the landscape when climbing in the Nears.

From Smike:"Bad or unjust zoning laws are just that, but the concept of zoning as integral part of building a community is a foundation to its prosperity."

Ahhhhhhh. A reasonable view of zoning. Thank you.




I am sure that Pamela appreciates you responding for her particularly since the arguements you make on her behalf are a good deal more "noble" than the "I don't want cars driving by my house" argument.

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#23389 - 09/06/06 02:50 PM Re: NAM [Re: RangerRob]
Smike Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/01/01
Posts: 3143
Loc: in your backyard
Quote:

Damn Smikey...you actually sound....intelligent and shit! Whooda thunk it.

RR

P.S. but then again, I'm a tard, so.......



Remember I've still been known to shop at Super Stop & Shop.

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