Most of us alien owners are probably feeling a little shaken by everything that has happened lately. So I was curious about what the consensus is for these guys:

-Are you going to send them to be tested? If so are you still going to trust em?
-Are you going to throw them out completely?

Im not sure where I stand. Im definitely going to send them in and once there tested Im thinking I may climb on them again. It seems to me that if they can withstand the testing to 2/3 of their failure, the braze is probably good for all but the extreme fall situations. Unless someone with knowledge of how many load cycles a braze can take will convince me otherwise.

If someone can convince me one way or the other I would appreciate it. Feel free to be technical, as I know a lot about physics and mech. engg.

Ross

PS- Man I missed my aliens last week.

I've replaced my black and blue aliens with C3s and have kept only my green on my rack for now. This is just because I'm finding the C3s pretty useful. I've always liked my .4 and larger C4s a little more than aliens, but both seem fine. For now, I'm not gonna get any testing, as I've seen way too many wippers on aliens to think there is a pervasive problem with them.

Aliens- what are you doing?

Using them. My Red just got tested last Sat with a 20' whip.

Figures I would miss all the fun.

buying more...
I just love the extra rush of faulty gear.
no really, I do...
anyone what to get rid of a yellow I'll take it off your hands.
I hate to pay full price and I already have 2 I need to retire (From Over abuse)

Placed the black and blue in a fairly critical spot the other day. Have taken a couple falls on my blue. Been using them (black/blue/green/yellow/gray/red) without concern.

I'll happily use mine, and soon too ........hopefully, for something more than filling up the storage bins in my closet - their premier role for the past year.

Irish

Mine are all several years old and have held small falls or better (except the black... may i never fall on the black) so I trust them. I probably wouldn't buy new ones right now but I'm not taking mine off my rack. Now I just need to get out climbing again.

First day back in the gym was yesterday. Hopefully will get outside this weekend.

I'll take any opportunity to say I still love and use my aliens. The dings and gouges on the cam lobes testify to the "gear testing" I've performed since switching over from Metolius three-cams about five years ago.

Climbing on mine and not really worrying about it. All of my aliens outside of the black have held at least one fall and none are in the dimpled time zone.

You can have my aliens when you pry them from my cold stiff fingers. Hey, what's with you people and not falling on the black?? I've done numerous times. Quite the treat!

RR

Just bought four new ones (green, yellow, grey, red). After all the scary internet hype you can not only finally find the sizes you're looking for, but you can pick them up cheap too. C3s are overrated. Used a couple this year, wasn't too impressed, especially when placing them vertically.

Just sent mine in for testing (4 in the window, 1 not). I plan to use them as before once I get them back. (Although I do continue to be frustrated by CCH's apparent total lack of business sense. Even before all the recalls, they still had that huge distribution issue. Anyone want to get together and offer to buy them out? [Kidding, sort of.])
-Carissa

I built my own pull rig for a few hundred bucks that can pull 6000+ pounds. It involved a high-lift jack(4x4 stuff), a big tree, a big boulder, lots of heavy chain, lots of large steel quicklinks. I'll post pics sometime if I get off my ass.

It's got a scale up to 5000 pounds and seems pretty accurate.

A cold silver brazed joint like the dimpled jobs should fail at a few hundred pounds at most.

I tested all my aliens to 1000+ and a few cycles (i.e. 500--->1000 5 times or so). I made up a real simple rig out of two sheets of 1/4" plate that will hold any cam up to a #4 or so...

Plus now I can tear sh!t apart for fun.... That's the cool part.... You know... that funky cam/ancient biner/nut that you don't trust?

Word of caution though .... you can easily kill or cripple yourself with my rig so......

-Fear

"Internet hype?" From CCH:

The window of the recall was 11-04 to 12-05, thus any Alien cams date coded during this period should be tested, dimpled or not. (Emphasis mine--RG.)

CCH will tensile test customers’ Aliens, of any manufacture date at no charge, to ensure that they will withstand a fall. Testing is done to 2/3 the rated tensile strength. After testing, all cams are currently being identified with a “Tensile Tested” stamp on the main swage above the loop. We will test and return cams to our customers within 1 week of receiving them.

Please attach your complete contact information to each unit being returned for testing, to facilitate a speedy turn-around.


Dave Waggoner

Colorado Custom Hardware Inc.
115 East Lyon Street
Laramie, WY 82072 USA
(307) 721-9385

As an aside, the ambulance-chasers seem to be paying attention, although I think these are more or less automated responses triggered by CCH 's recall notice, published on April 18th by the US Consumer Product Safety Commission:

1. From Lawyers and Settlements.com

CCH Rock Climbing Cam Recalled

Colorado Custom Hardware (CCH) has recently issued a recall of their Alien rock climbing cams due to defects and safety hazards. The company has received one report of an Alien cam failing during use.

Cams are camming anchors used to support and protect rock climbers during ascents. These cams were sold at nationwide climbing stores, mountain equipment stores, and online retailers from November 2004 to December 2005.

Consumers with the defective CCH cams should discontinue use and contact the manufacturer for a return, repair, or replacement.


Rock Climbing Cam Recalled in the News

CCH Inc. announces a recall of their “Alien Cams” due to potential product defects. (Apr-18-06) [CONSUMER AFFAIRS]


Register your CCH Cam Recall Complaint

If you or your loved one has suffered bodily injury as a result of a defective CCH Rock Climbing Cam, you may qualify for compensation that may be awarded in a possible class action or lawsuit, please click the link below to submit your case.


[Click here to submit your complaint through a secure form]


2. From Your Legal Information.com

If you have been injured due to the failure of a mountain climbing camming anchor (alien cam), a lawyer at Pritzker | Ruohonen is available for a free consultation. You can reach a lawyer at our firm by calling toll-free at 1-888-377-8900 or by filling in our online consultation form.

Whip now, sue later...

D-Elvis... Anything to say about this? You're one of them Ambulance chasers after all

I checked mine for dimples and the only cam that had one was a gold alien (one of the first 8 that rock and snow got). I sent that back to cch and over a month later I got a new one back with a tag saying how it had been professionally tested by dave waggoner and blah blah blah. Im not to displeased though because the new one seems to have better action and feel than my first gold.

My other aliens, which I replaced ~1 year before the recal might possibly be within the recal date, but I havent used them since before it was posted (ive been climbing on parters rack). Ill check them before i use them next. Ive been a little reluctant to send them in for testing becuase it will take 6 weeks judging by how long it was before i got my replacement gold. It would definatly be a real attention getter though if I got them back with a note saying one failed!

I still continue to trust aliens and I climb above them alot. I did several routes this summer in yosemite where nothing except for red aliens would have protected the beat out pin scar pods to my satisfaction. I brought two reds and a grey (and the rest of my rack, lol) on an 80 foot pitch and used the 3 aliens up in no time. When I pulled out the purple camalot higher up and tried to get something the best i could do was "fairly shitty". Most pods wouldnt even accept all four lobes of the camalots, and on the ones that did made two of the lobes expanded almost fully with the others all the way retracted. Long story short, I had cruised the strenuous A0 part, fired the 5.10 face below the crack, and then had to take a hang on the 5.8 pin scars because the protection was way to difficult to fiddle with. I would have sent if i had brought more aliens.

hmmm . . . since I only recently purchased my gray alien (about a month and a half ago), I guess I should check it out. The others have all been on my rack for several years.

All of my Aleins (9) were within the date range specified in the recall. I sent them to CCH and they had them all tested and back in the mail to me within 5 business days. All passed the test fine too.

Buying metolius offsets instead?

Nah, I'm doing nothing. But I've only got one alien (green/yellow) anyhow.

I won't buy any more aliens, but not because I'm afraid of them failing (I continue to use the ones I have) more because I feel they haven't evolved, and there is better gear out there now. The C3's, and Metolius ultra lights are both far better in my humble opinion. Aliens work, but they need updating...

i picked u some C3's in EMS last weekend - they seem very inflexible in one dimension. Don't know that I'd tout them as a replacement for Aliens.....

Irish

I like the transverse stability of C3s, especially in horizontal placements. This prevents them from walking at all and can therefore use somewhat less than ideal and shallow cracks with more reliability.
No one type of pro is ideal for every situation and different eyes will tend toward different preferences and opportunities. Most of the time, any of the small cams are fine. If Aliens had a cam stop I would be more inclined to keep buying them. The quality control issues are not as big a factor to me. I may change my mind again, but for now I'm likin' them C3s and keep all but my green Alien for extra pieces where needed.

I agree with Irish. I played with a set of the C3 and did not like them at all. I found the triggers to be exceptionally stiff. I also found the bodies to be much to stiff and inflexible(if that is a word) The play and flexibility of Aliens is part of what makes them so verstile. C3 would scare me in a vertial orientation due to there rigidity. I was very excited when I saw the C3 coming out, but once I got to try them I was not impressed and would not use them. The quality seemed great but I just did not like the feel or design. I am not dumping my Aliens anytime soon.

i got to use some C3s a week ago, and they are actually pretty nice. yes they are stiff but they don't walk. the cam trigger is stiff, but i think the more you use them the more you get used to it, the stiffness of the trigger allows for very easy manipulation of the individual lobes.

as they are they way too expensive an option though

irish,

the transverse rigidity is by design, and is actually very helpful in horizontal placements when the piece is weighted.

Crackboy,

The head width is smaller in C3's than comperable Aliens (hard to compare FCU vs TCU, but the middle cam on C3's is double wide), and the overall weight of the C3's are lighter. Last, the springs in C3's are placed away from the head, so there are less issues with dirt getting into the mechanism.

RR

Seems to me that that makes it less likely to torque out of a placement when you whip onto one.......

Of course Iris Hare is only speaking hypothetically, since he hasn't actually climbed anything (much less taken a whipper) since before W was in office.

(not that I can talk either, I've got single-digit climbing days so far for '06. )

Well, now that the Ph.D thingy is out of the way, I might appear at the Gunks once or twice. In fact, if it isn't raining Sunday I might be there.

Maybe I'll even remember how to tie a figure eight.......

Irish

In fact, if it isn't raining Sunday I might be there
Are you one of those guys that purposely picks the worst weather day of the 2 just to increase the odds of getting out of going climbing?

No, I'm one of those married guys who's going horse-riding with his wife on Saturday......

bring on the mockery......

no mockery, just looking at the weather for Sunday, why bother even mentioning a chance.....Might as well say I'll go climbing when Bush’s approval rating goes back above 45%....

English tack, but cross-country, so its basically go hell-for-leather, get over it any way you can, if-you-end-up-covered-in-mud-it-was-a-good-day..............

Oh, and for people who like to moan about the price of climbing gear..........just go visit a tack store some time!!!!!

Irish

Geez, and I was waiting until Sunday mornings, Saturday night at the earliest!

Myself, really like the BD C3's and the Wild Country Zeros have been on my rack for several years and have been whipping on them.

As for Aliens, ran into friends who were just out for the first time in a month after having to deal with an accident where their friend whipped on an orange alien (on the Prow at Paradise Forks if anyone is folloing a thread on RC.com). The stem seperated at the braze. Dave was saying that the response from CCH has been pretty shitty.

Played with one of the C3's the other day. (The green) It was clutch on a route where it was the only option that worked getting through the crux. Black or blue Alien would not go. (Small shallow horizontals seem to be where its in its glory) The tight springs help keep the lobs in contact, so if you’re whining about pulling the trigger go do some rollies. Still not as versatile as aliens, but like most small gear it has its places where only it will go. (I’m thinking this is more of a factor when using the small C3 sizes then the larger ones) For me it would be more of a replacement for the black Alien and gives you options slightly smaller if you have the 2 smallest C3’s. Blue and up on Aliens I would keep right on my rack.

So, I just started leading this year and have only BD Cams (C3s) on my rack. I've been happy with them so far, but haven't taken any falls on them. It was my understanding that the C3s are *the* TCU on the market right now, replacing the aliens . Am I wrong?

Yes.... in short you are wrong.

C3s are a TCU (three lobes) and they are HOT! as can be attested to by many of the previous posts....

however....

Aliens are a 4CU (four lobes)...

C3s will not replace Aliens, but they may supplement them. Just as Aliens did not replace Metolius TCU's or Tri-Cams... Remember each cam type has its own unique benefits and drawbacks... There is no "Perfect" cam!

C3s are *the* TCU on the market right now, replacing the aliens

You'll hafta pry my alien offsets from my dead cold hands.

If every placement was a green alien...

hmmm...I'll take a look at the aliens at R&S this weekend, but I'm not sure what purpose they would serve...."supplementing" sounds like adding more weight to an already complete [BD] rack...but, I'll take a look...

You don't need to have all the gear. It's OK to make a choice.

What to carry on your rack has been beaten to death then deep fried sooo many times..although one point I don’t see made very often which I find very true in the gunks, (as opposed to the more traditional crack climbing areas around the world) is that as one leads up through the grades naturally the rack they haul up changes quite a bit. (generally it gets smaller and more diverse) What I thought was dead weight once, is now standard fair. The higher up one goes the more you run into the ‘only one piece goes here” sign blinking at you from the rock (no so fun when you don’t have that ‘one’)

Buy a green or yellow alien!
Or if you really want a piece that is magic in the Gunks the Green/Yellow Hybrid!
Don't waste any more money on BD unless its to replace the one you left in the rock and it was your buddies piece.
actually, no, don't replace that either. buy them a few rounds of beer and say " Sorry dude!"

btw - I am DUMB

-Karl