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#24467 - 10/09/06 01:50 PM Look Out Parking on Clove Rd
Kevin Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 11/17/99
Posts: 201
Just an FYI... Yesterday while riding back from Minne, I noticed a few LARGE stickers, looked like printed off on a computer 8.5inx11in size, signs that someone had pasted/attached/stuck to the driver side window of cars parked on the shoulder of Clove Rd right at 299... I am sure they parked there as things were full up by 10am... In fact I saw one of the people parking when I rode by about that time, and when I rode past at 330-4pm-ish, the signs were on the most of the cars there... The signs said something along the lines of this is a no parking area with a circle with a red slash through it.

I just hope they were not really 'stuck' on the cars, that would suck, personally just leaving a note under the windowwipers should be OK, not sticking something on their cars... That is not too cool...

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#24468 - 10/09/06 04:45 PM Re: Look Out Parking on Clove Rd [Re: Kevin]
Terrie Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 247
Hmmm....I made a post to this thread, saw it post and read it once it went through, and now it is gone. Though I know it wasn't completely on topic(Clove Road and only Clove Road, and the people who paste cars with No Parking on Clove Road...), I think it was a valid point. AND it offered a not-so-difficult to implement solution.

I went to contact the webmaster, but the page gave me an error message, so I'm asking here - why did you take away my post?
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#24469 - 10/09/06 04:57 PM Re: Look Out Parking on Clove Rd [Re: Terrie]
Smike Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/01/01
Posts: 3143
Loc: in your backyard
...ah post it again?

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#24470 - 10/09/06 05:24 PM Re: Look Out Parking on Clove Rd [Re: Smike]
Terrie Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 247
You know....It took me some time/effort to write. It was "removed." It didn't just not post.

The gist was how congested the overlook was this weekend - with cars parked along 45/55 from the steel bridge all the way along and well past the overlook, and the the overlook spilling over. And, some idiot even parked on the INSIDE of the curve, and how an accident would be unavoidable if two cars were oncoming at that precise section of the road. And I mentioned an idea for a positive solution.

Anyway, I realized that the idea(car ferry to/from Coxing lot) might be an idea the preserve would actually consider, even though the overlook isn't their jurisdiction. So I emailed them directly.
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#24471 - 10/09/06 05:42 PM Re: Look Out Parking on Clove Rd [Re: Terrie]
Smike Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/01/01
Posts: 3143
Loc: in your backyard
Coxing lot is also full on peak weekends Cars were splattered all along 44/55 all the way to the back side overlook. (I almost took out 4 or 5 cars on my way back from cliff Sunday afternoon) Maybe over by Kents clear cut we could set up some additional parking. Hey shorter hike if your climbing at the bank.

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#24472 - 10/09/06 05:46 PM Re: Look Out Parking on Clove Rd [Re: Terrie]
Kent Offline
old hand

Registered: 01/21/00
Posts: 1038
Loc: The Bayards
Hi Terrie,

Evan has a very liberal policy about what gets posted, so perhaps there may have been a software glitch. Try bringing it to his attention in an email as he doesn't read every post and may be unaware of the problem you encountered.

To get to your point though, a shuttle does seem like a good idea to deal with some of the parking problem. It would of course add to the crowding problem on the Preserve and so by design maybe they don't want to add a shuttle.

I've always thought a loop shuttle would be very cool. The visitor center to Coxing to Clove Chapel to Spring Farm to the Park and Ride by 87 to the Bus Station to R&S to the Deli (or thereabouts) to the visitor center and around again. That way people could do through hikes without spotting a car and those who get lost and spit out somewhere other than where they started could just hitch a ride.

If they wanted to be really crunchy and save some money they could get a new van/bus with an ultra low sulfer diesel engine and run it on bio diesel in keeping with, and perhaps expanding, some of their environmental education goals.

Just an idea or two.

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#24473 - 10/09/06 05:55 PM Re: Look Out Parking on Clove Rd [Re: Smike]
Kent Offline
old hand

Registered: 01/21/00
Posts: 1038
Loc: The Bayards
Maybe over by Kents clear cut we could set up some additional parking.

I would have to provide a conservation analysis to get a special use permit to allow parking, and get a variance from the ZBA. But if we can get all that done, I'm game.


Edited by Kent (10/09/06 05:56 PM)

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#24474 - 10/09/06 06:01 PM Re: Look Out Parking on Clove Rd [Re: Kent]
Terrie Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 247
maybe a software glitch...As I said, i tried to contact webmaster, and got an ewrror message.

You town shuttle is actually a very good idea....

Visitor number isn't going to be reduced by having no parking; but I can tell you that what I saw this weekend was a prime set up for an accident.

Preserve liability would *probably* come into question if one of the factors involved in an accident at the overlook area of the road was overflow parking on the streets. Hate to say it, but if there was a scammer around, it would be a perfect foil. Hit the state and a nonprofit with extensive land holdings.
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#24475 - 10/09/06 06:06 PM Re: Look Out Parking on Clove Rd [Re: Terrie]
Kent Offline
old hand

Registered: 01/21/00
Posts: 1038
Loc: The Bayards
Evan is very approachable. Try calling. Most days he's at his desk for much of the day: 845-255-4911.

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#24476 - 10/09/06 06:12 PM Re: Look Out Parking on Clove Rd [Re: Terrie]
Dillbag Offline
old hand

Registered: 05/02/06
Posts: 1130
Loc: "The Town"
Quote:

Preserve liability would *probably* come into question if one of the factors involved in an accident at the overlook area of the road was overflow parking on the streets.




I'm no lawyer, (calling delvis) but... I don't believe that the preserve would be liable for people parking on the roadside or in the overlook... They have closed the access trails from the road, which is a "good faith" effort and would probably alleviate any threat of liability.

Also, it is the state that should be enforcing the no parking laws on 44/55 (unless emergency) and in the overlook...
Of course I think that these topics have been beaten to death previously...

I for one can understand why local residents would be annoyed with people parking all up and down Clove Rd as it is quite narrow with very little shoulder in most spots. And as smike stated earlier, the Coxing Lot is usually full on busy weekends for two reasons, it is only a 10-15 minute walk from the West Trapps Lot (rather pleasant also) and that other crag (the one that's lost) is right up the trail from the Lot...

Kent your idea is interesting, but a more immediate solution would be for people to car-pool... how many of us climbers drive up and then meet our partners there?
And remember, it's not just the climbers this time of year, there are a lot of those leaf junkies out too!

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#24477 - 10/09/06 06:42 PM Re: Look Out Parking on Clove Rd [Re: Dillbag]
Smike Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/01/01
Posts: 3143
Loc: in your backyard
Quote:

I would have to provide a conservation analysis to get a special use permit to allow parking, and get a variance from the ZBA. But if we can get all that done, I'm game.



Dam Gardiner zoning laws grrrrr.......

Given the number crawling all over the cliff this past weekend, where would you put these extra users once the short bus dropped them off? It causes NOMRNSC issues (Not On My Runout No Star Classic) Those are the best cure for those crowded weekends….

The far better solution (long term, but being negotiated slowly as we speak) is open all the ‘other white rock” in that other park. Seems they are far better to handle the overflow.

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#24478 - 10/09/06 06:47 PM Re: Look Out Parking on Clove Rd [Re: Smike]
Kent Offline
old hand

Registered: 01/21/00
Posts: 1038
Loc: The Bayards
Agreed. Open climbing at Awosting, Sam's Point, and Minnewaska proper, and connect them to the visitors center with a second shuttle, to reduce parking issues all around, and spread the climbers out.

But of course we are all flat out dreaming. But it's a dreamy kind of day, so why not.

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#24479 - 10/09/06 06:55 PM Re: Look Out Parking on Clove Rd [Re: Kent]
Dillbag Offline
old hand

Registered: 05/02/06
Posts: 1130
Loc: "The Town"
I say we should get the AMC to set it up! An AMC shuttle, only 75 cents for AMC members and $5 for non-members...

And they could bring back the belay/leader tests!!!

Of course then we would have the "Vulgarian Dept of Transit" or the Trans-VD... which could consist of old VW micro-buses and rusted out pick-up trucks...

...yup... that would be entertaining

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#24480 - 10/09/06 07:16 PM Re: Look Out Parking on Clove Rd [Re: Kent]
oenophore Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/24/01
Posts: 5981
Loc: 212 land
A most useful bus service would be one on weekend mornings and late afternoons -- New Paltz Bus Station <--> Preserve. It would be scheduled to mesh with the Trailways schedule.
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#24481 - 10/09/06 07:31 PM Re: Look Out Parking on Clove Rd [Re: oenophore]
Jannette Offline

Cliffmama
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 10/03/00
Posts: 2226
Loc: Gardiner, NY
I often meet my partners at the deli, then we drive to the lot we choose. If we could legally park somewhere near there, perhaps in the empty lot across the street from the Brauhaus, we could leave 1 car parked down there and carpool. A shuttle bus seems a bit over the top to pay for and manage.

Jannette

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#24482 - 10/09/06 07:46 PM Re: Look Out Parking on Clove Rd [Re: Jannette]
Dillbag Offline
old hand

Registered: 05/02/06
Posts: 1130
Loc: "The Town"
Jannette,

I think that is a common occurrence... In fact, I used to be one of the people doing the same. Have you considered, meeting in town (there are lots of great eats, refer to the evans maps and lots of parking in the morning) or maybe leaving a car at the multi-use (if your camping)?

Meeting in town saves on several levels... it saves on parking multiple cars at the preserve... saves on some gas $$, and more importantly, it saves you from eating a mediocre at best sandwich that costs as much as a six-pack of micro-brew!!!
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#24483 - 10/09/06 07:52 PM Re: Look Out Parking on Clove Rd [Re: Jannette]
Kent Offline
old hand

Registered: 01/21/00
Posts: 1038
Loc: The Bayards
The shuttle would be costly. All in, 9-12K a year. And then someone would have to be paid to drive it. That cost may seem high but the cost of a tragic accident on that stretch of road seems, to me, much higher.

Edited to add........ Of course, a shuttle may not prevent such an accident, but isn't life all about risk mitigation? Shouldn't FEMA get involved here? Where is the Department of Homeland Security? Well, actually, the DHS was just here raiding the folks in the front of the building for human trafficking, prostitution, money laundering, etc., along with the FBI and the local police department. Classy neighborhood it is.


Edited by Kent (10/09/06 08:10 PM)

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#24484 - 10/09/06 08:19 PM Re: Look Out Parking on Clove Rd [Re: Kent]
Dillbag Offline
old hand

Registered: 05/02/06
Posts: 1130
Loc: "The Town"
Quote:

The shuttle would be costly. All in, 9-12K a year. And then someone would have to be paid to drive it. That cost may seem high but the cost of a tragic accident on that stretch of road seems, to me, much higher.




A shuttle would be great... I'm not trying to be negative... okay, maybe a little bit... but only cause its kinda fun sometimes...

Here are some potential issues with the shuttle idea:

1) Traffic, there is no HOV lane to get to NP, it would take the shuttle way, way, way, too long on a normal peak season traffic day to perform even the shortest loop (NP -> Visitors Center)

2) Non-climbers, sure, to a climber what would be better than parking in NP and catching a shuttle up to the cliff, then returning and bieng right in downtown NP or jumping off at the MUA. But to a typical leafer or day-visitor, it's not that great, and how would they find out about it... Usually, these folks go pick (insert fruit/vegetable of choice), check out a winery, go for a "hike" (term used loosely) at the preserve and grab dinner at a local restaurant. Not easily accomplished via a shuttle.

3) Capacity, a "shuttle" usually only holds 20-25 people anything larger is going to be a full-on bus... which will cost a lot! So... you go out climb, go to catch the shuttle... and your thinking "Sweet, it's right there! No waiting" but in reality it's already full... and it's gonna be an hour (minimum) before it gets back... now your thinking "Stupid f-ing shuttle, stupid f-ing other people who aren't as good as me"

4) Cost, ok... so 9-12K, plus a driver, plus insurance, plus administration... oh and don't forget gas $$, even on bio-diesel it will get costly...

5) Access, who can ride it? Anyone? or do they have to purchase a day-pass or have a membership?

I am sure there are some other drawbacks as well, but for now that should do...

So we now have a fantasy shuttle that takes anywhere from 2-4 hours per loop, it's always crowded (even though the parking lots and overlook still look full), seems to just sit on Rt 299 forever... smells like dirt-bag (only on the weekend) climbers, and damn... I always seem to miss the last one!

I think I'll stick to driving in with my climbing partners!

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#24485 - 10/09/06 08:36 PM Re: Look Out Parking on Clove Rd [Re: Dillbag]
Kent Offline
old hand

Registered: 01/21/00
Posts: 1038
Loc: The Bayards
The 9-12k "all in" included maintenance, admin, fuel, insurance. My number could be wrong though. Dill, you raise valid points of course but some ski areas run similar shuttles, with far more people involved. Of course, they charge a gazillion dollars for a lift ticket these days. With enough interest, and some planning, a shuttle might work. Then again, it might not.

Any friends of mine are welcome to carpool from my front yard. Non-friends must offer bribes. The folks who left broken beer bottles at the end of my driveway will be used as practice patients for beginner search and rescue high angle multi-pitch lift training in FEMA's new climbing risk mitigation program.

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#24486 - 10/09/06 08:40 PM Re: Look Out Parking on Clove Rd [Re: Kent]
Dillbag Offline
old hand

Registered: 05/02/06
Posts: 1130
Loc: "The Town"
Quote:

...beginner search and rescue high angle multi-pitch lift training in FEMA's new climbing risk mitigation program.




Where do I sign up for that class?

And is there a shuttle service? I heard parking was tough at the last one

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#24487 - 10/09/06 10:12 PM Re: Look Out Parking on Clove Rd [Re: Dillbag]
Terrie Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 247
Sorry if I was a little paranoid, righteous crusader-y earlier....Mornings sometimes do that to me..... And also seems the thread has forgotten all about the post it person. Maybe that was someone from the Dept. of Homeland Security!

A shuttle bus from town wouldn't have to be preserve operated. Taxis drop people off on preserve grounds; so another private business should be able to do so as well. Unless the preserve took issue with there being a sort of designated spot for people to gather. I guess if someone wanted to do such a shuttle, they would look into it. Same as for those questions Dillbag posed. It would be a nice service to have though, and appreciated by the bus people at least. I can see how people with cars would probably not want to pay anything at all for a shuttle when they can just park along the street in front of the overlook.....
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#24488 - 10/10/06 12:38 AM Re: Look Out Parking on Clove Rd [Re: Kent]
MarcC Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/10/00
Posts: 3532
Maybe my addled brain is remembering stuff that never happened, but I think I vaguely recall some kind of shuttle in the late 90's. Anyone else? Anyone? Bueller? It lasted two seasons at most and vanished due to lack of ridership.
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#24489 - 10/10/06 01:05 PM Re: Look Out Parking on Clove Rd [Re: Dillbag]
d-elvis Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 04/26/00
Posts: 3650
Loc: Central PA
In Yosemite, the traffic is nuts, it is loud and frustrating.... in comparison, in Zion (no cars allowed), with the shuttle (propane powered) it is quiet, with no traffic, and the shuttles are amazingly efficient & convenient.

Something like Zion perhaps?
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#24490 - 10/10/06 02:03 PM Re: Look Out Parking on Clove Rd [Re: d-elvis]
strat Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 04/30/01
Posts: 4242
Or- people could just take days off during the week and not have to deal with the weekend crowds. Or,not climb at the gunks in peak season. Oh, I forgot, the rock is deteriorating so it's important to climb it before it goes away.

Gardiner should talk to Keene Valley about shuttling. They have successfully and effectively operated a hiker shuttle between Marcy field and the Garden parking lot for several years. But, providing a service to non-residents would be sort of ironic for Gardiner to do.

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#24491 - 10/10/06 02:20 PM Re: Look Out Parking on Clove Rd [Re: strat]
quanto_the_mad Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/14/02
Posts: 2628
Loc: brooklyn
I got to the West Trapps lot around 9:15 and I had to park below the gatehouse. Of course, they could have fit another 10 cars if people would park closer together. I think it would be better to have another ranger on duty there "helping" people park cars. I mean there's already someone at the steel bridge checking passes, so have him do all the collecting of money and have the ranger direct parking cars instead of just sending them up and allowing them to park with 8' between cars.

As for not going up on weekends, easy to say if you're a local. But for those of us who can only get up there on weekends, skipping a single weekend, especially when the forcast is favorable, really isn't an option.
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#24492 - 10/10/06 03:03 PM Re: Look Out Parking on Clove Rd [Re: strat]
Smike Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/01/01
Posts: 3143
Loc: in your backyard
Quote:

But, providing a service to non-residents would be sort of ironic for Gardiner to do.



It would make complete sense if Gardiner was going to stop all the bitching that the town of NP gets all the cash from visitors while lands [edited to add] and public services in Gardiner get the use, and set up a shuttle location in their town and give people a reason to go there and spend $$ in the private sector


Edited by Smike (10/10/06 03:26 PM)

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#24493 - 10/10/06 03:15 PM Re: Look Out Parking on Clove Rd [Re: strat]
Kent Offline
old hand

Registered: 01/21/00
Posts: 1038
Loc: The Bayards
But, providing a service to non-residents would be sort of ironic for Gardiner to do.

If I'm not mistaken, the Gardiner volunteer fire department/rescue squad responds to a high percentage of climbing accidents on the Preserve.

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#24494 - 10/10/06 04:18 PM Re: Look Out Parking on Clove Rd [Re: Terrie]
quanto_the_mad Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/14/02
Posts: 2628
Loc: brooklyn
Quote:

Hmmm....I made a post to this thread, saw it post and read it once it went through, and now it is gone. Though I know it wasn't completely on topic(Clove Road and only Clove Road, and the people who paste cars with No Parking on Clove Road...), I think it was a valid point. AND it offered a not-so-difficult to implement solution.

I went to contact the webmaster, but the page gave me an error message, so I'm asking here - why did you take away my post?




Maybe it went to another thread? One of Aya's posts got put in a different thread than the one she was responding to.
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#24495 - 10/10/06 05:45 PM Re: Look Out Parking on Clove Rd [Re: Kevin]
Julie Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 01/16/00
Posts: 2090
Loc: SoCal
Speaking of parking in the turnout ... we were utterly amazed at the three Vanagon campers that seemed to spend ALL WEEKEND in the "30-minute" parking.

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#24496 - 10/10/06 06:13 PM Re: Look Out Parking on Clove Rd [Re: Julie]
quanto_the_mad Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/14/02
Posts: 2628
Loc: brooklyn
Not only that, but they'd "kitty cornered" a spot. Probably could have fit another car in there, but instead they set up lounge chairs there. Now that's pretty rude.
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#24497 - 10/10/06 07:03 PM Re: Look Out Parking on Clove Rd [Re: Kent]
strat Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 04/30/01
Posts: 4242
Quote:

But, providing a service to non-residents would be sort of ironic for Gardiner to do.

If I'm not mistaken, the Gardiner volunteer fire department/rescue squad responds to a high percentage of climbing accidents on the Preserve.




Of anyone who could appreciate the irony of my proposal, it should have been you, Kent, one who, in the past has complained about the fact that you have to pay for your own trash removal or take it to a landfill/transfer station yourself.

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#24498 - 10/10/06 07:13 PM Re: Look Out Parking on Clove Rd [Re: strat]
Kent Offline
old hand

Registered: 01/21/00
Posts: 1038
Loc: The Bayards
I've complained about lack of garbage pick up only in relation to the high level of taxation, and if my memory serves me correctly, only in a private message to you, not on this board. The cost of garbage pickup is very minor in the grand scheme of things. But Gardiner does have pretty high property taxes and very few services.

This has nothing to do with whether or not Gardiner provides services to out of towners.

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#24499 - 10/10/06 07:54 PM Re: Look Out Parking on Clove Rd [Re: Julie]
Kevin Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 11/17/99
Posts: 201
I was not even going to mention the overlooks, put yeah, I saw the Vanagons as well... that was pretty rude of them, especially blocking a spot so they could have a 'patio'...

The upper overlook was full on my way up in the morning... that the lower one was full again in the afternoon... BTW, what is with the people selling jeans on the lower hairpin?...

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#24500 - 10/10/06 07:59 PM Re: Look Out Parking on Clove Rd [Re: Kevin]
Kent Offline
old hand

Registered: 01/21/00
Posts: 1038
Loc: The Bayards
tonight's town board agenda includes "6.1.3 Mohonk Preserve Parking"



TOWN BOARD AGENDA
Town of Gardiner – Regular Meeting
Gardiner Town Meeting Hall
Tuesday, Oct 10, 2006
7:00 P.M.

1 5:45 Planning Board Interviews

2 6:45 Executive Session –
2.1 Cell tower Contract Negotiations
2.2 Union Negotiation Update

3 Community Announcements

4 7PM Call Regular Meeting to Order

5 Public Hearing – Moratorium Extension

6 Workshop
6.1 General
6.1.1 Part 1203 – Set Public Hearing
6.1.2 Toll Brothers Performance Bond
6.1.3 Mohonk Preserve Parking
6.1.4 Budget
6.1.5 Approve Minutes
6.2 Special Report
6.2.1 ZAC Notes

7 Resolutions

8 Miscellaneous

8.1 Financials
8.2 Privilege of the Floor (if time allows)

9 Adjourn

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#24501 - 10/10/06 08:27 PM Re: Look Out Parking on Clove Rd [Re: Kevin]
Julie Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 01/16/00
Posts: 2090
Loc: SoCal
Yeah - they held a monopoly on one of the best viewpoints accessible to normal car-bound folk, all weekend long. Everyone else had to look at the vista, AND the Vanagons.

Irony: they probably didn't even appreciate it, in comparison to the view from the cliffs.

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#24502 - 10/10/06 08:55 PM Re: Town Board Meeting [Re: Kent]
Dillbag Offline
old hand

Registered: 05/02/06
Posts: 1130
Loc: "The Town"
Quote:

tonight's town board agenda includes "6.1.3 Mohonk Preserve Parking"




Kent...
I'm assuming you will be in attendance at the meeting, do you mind posting a note on the parking issue, I think it would be interesting to hear about...


Delvis...
it sure would be grand if they could set it up like Zion, but I seriously doubt your gonna get them to close down 44/55 since its the main pass through the ridge... And the climber/hiker/tourist cars aren't making the noise it's those sweet harley's and jake-brakes which give the uberfall its distinctive wilderness appeal

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#24503 - 10/10/06 09:14 PM Re: Town Board Meeting [Re: Dillbag]
Kevin Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 11/17/99
Posts: 201
Kent... I hope you are going... I would love to hear a report about what the issue they see about the parking situation is...

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#24504 - 10/10/06 09:34 PM Re: Look Out Parking on Clove Rd [Re: d-elvis]
MarcC Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/10/00
Posts: 3532
Quote:

... in comparison, in Zion (no cars allowed), with the shuttle (propane powered) it is quiet, with no traffic, and the shuttles are amazingly efficient & convenient.

Something like Zion perhaps?



The only reasons the Zion shuttle works so well are:

1) No other vehicles other than bicycles
2) A shockingly large number of shuttles, especially when combined with....
3) A very tiny area of service - one-way mileage is less than from the Mtn. Deli to Coxing.

Yosemite is the more apt comparison to the Gunks, but on a smaller scale.
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#24505 - 10/11/06 10:55 AM Re: Town Board Meeting [Re: Kevin]
Kent Offline
old hand

Registered: 01/21/00
Posts: 1038
Loc: The Bayards
Dill, Kevin, about the town meeting.

"Mohonk Preserve Parking" was a bit of a misnomer. The topic of discussion was the overlook and hairpin turn parking. Apparently consensus has been reached among the Town of Gardiner, NYDOT, NY State Police, Ulster County Sheriff's Office, and the MP, that the 30 minute rule at the hairpin turn and the overlook lot should be enforced. How it will be enforced hasn't been worked out yet. That's what the discussion was about.

There must be some bad juju going on in that area of late. As someone else noted in another thread there was yet another climbing accident yesterday, again at Frog's Head, this one not so serious it seems. But sadly, there was a very serious head on collision yesterday morning, at about 8:30, on 44/55 just west of the Trapps Bridge, pretty much in the heart of what all of us consider to be hallowed ground. I don't have any details other than it was very bad.

Ten stars to everyone everywhere.

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#24506 - 10/11/06 12:12 PM Re: Town Board Meeting [Re: Kent]
Mike Rawdon Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/29/99
Posts: 4276
Loc: Poughkeepsie
Well, WEST of the Trapps Bridge has not seen any roadside parking in years. Using an accident there to assess the effect of the scenic pullout parking is just ridiculous. One might just as easily conclude that the porta-potties under the bridge were to blame.

But I wouldn't mind too much if they started enforcing the 30 min limit. Either that or take the signs down.

And of course the hawkers selling their wares at the hairpin - it's jeans this week, right? - should be shooed away after 1/2 hour too. But of course they won't.

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#24507 - 10/11/06 12:22 PM Re: Town Board Meeting [Re: Mike Rawdon]
Kent Offline
old hand

Registered: 01/21/00
Posts: 1038
Loc: The Bayards
Well, WEST of the Trapps Bridge has not seen any roadside parking in years. Using an accident there to assess the effect of the scenic pullout parking is just ridiculous. One might just as easily conclude that the porta-potties under the bridge were to blame.

Mike, no one connected the parking situation to the accident. The accident wasn't mentioned at the town board meeting except in private conversation.

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#24508 - 10/11/06 12:39 PM Re: Town Board Meeting [Re: Kent]
Smike Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/01/01
Posts: 3143
Loc: in your backyard
Quote:

But sadly, there was a very serious head on collision yesterday morning, at about 8:30, on 44/55 just west of the Trapps Bridge, pretty much in the heart of what all of us consider to be hallowed ground. I don't have any details other than it was very bad.




When leaving home one Sunday eve about 2 months ago I came across a head on where 44/55 crosses the coxing kill (about a mile west of the West Trapps) All I can say is I never what to see that again in life. That road going over the ridge is inherently bad on its own design. Whether the parking is 30 minutes (enforced) or long term would make no difference in that regard. No parking and no pull offs might make is slightly safer, but I don’t think that’s the way to go.

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#24509 - 10/11/06 01:19 PM Re: Town Board Meeting [Re: Smike]
Dillbag Offline
old hand

Registered: 05/02/06
Posts: 1130
Loc: "The Town"
Kent,
Thanks for taking the time to post on the discussion at the board meeting... it will be interesting to see if they begin ticketing the violators again. It's been atleast 3 or 4 years since the last crack-down on the parking situation...

I guess we'll all have to get up and going a bit earlier to beat the "Leafers" to the legal parking!

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#24510 - 10/11/06 04:50 PM Re: Town Board Meeting [Re: Kent]
chazman Offline
old hand

Registered: 02/07/02
Posts: 944
Quote:

Dill, Kevin, about the town meeting.

"Mohonk Preserve Parking" was a bit of a misnomer. The topic of discussion was the overlook and hairpin turn parking. Apparently consensus has been reached among the Town of Gardiner, NYDOT, NY State Police, Ulster County Sheriff's Office, and the MP, that the 30 minute rule at the hairpin turn and the overlook lot should be enforced. How it will be enforced hasn't been worked out yet. That's what the discussion was about.



I’m not sure how that parking lot / turn-around is owned but it seems like an easy and lucrative enforcement is start towing cars. When my wife was in school in Boston the off campus apartment parking lot had spaces that were at a high premium (2 spaces per apartment but each apartment had 6 people in it… you do the math) so the apartment slumlord contracted with a tow company to tow cars if they didn’t have a sticker. It was like shooting fish in a barrel. The landlord got a percentage from the tow guy to give him an exclusive right to tow (who knows if this was legal) and the tow company had his name and number on signs around the lot so you’d know where to go claim your car… and pay the $150 fee.

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#24511 - 10/11/06 05:08 PM Re: Town Board Meeting [Re: chazman]
Dillbag Offline
old hand

Registered: 05/02/06
Posts: 1130
Loc: "The Town"
Quote:

I’m not sure how that parking lot / turn-around is owned




As far as I know the "parking lot", if we're talking about the overlook and the turn-around at the hairpin, is owned by the state/county as it is part of the road... which is why the state and local police are involved in enforcement...
Hopefully they won't start towing... the overlook is a bit tight to try and get a tow started without smashing several other cars...

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#24512 - 10/11/06 05:42 PM Re: Town Board Meeting [Re: Dillbag]
alicex4 Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/05/00
Posts: 3400
"Hopefully they won't start towing... the overlook is a bit tight to try and get a tow started without smashing several other cars..."

hahahaha, tow truck drivers don't care about dings! Once saw a Philly parking Authority towing a pickup at 5th and Walnut Sts. Tow truck couldn't navigate the turn and hooked the pickup on a pole, it left a nice gash. Reasonable care is tough to prove in court. I hope they start towing, it should be entertaining to watch.

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#24513 - 10/12/06 12:47 AM Re: Town Board Meeting [Re: alicex4]
Terrie Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 247
So sad about a bad accident in that section of road. I can tell you that I sometimes shudder, driving toward the bridge after getting out of the Trapps lot at how fast some people cruise that section, even in foggy conditions. Knowing there could be people walking accross the street under the bridge, I just don't understand how people can be so unthinking.

When I am walking with my dog from Slime to the Nears, I fear for his safety too. People go SO fast there. Both ways. With curves in the road, and people not staying on their side of the lines, it's easy to see how head ons occur.
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#24514 - 10/17/06 06:24 PM Re: Town Board Meeting [Re: Terrie]
webmaster Offline

veteran

Registered: 01/06/00
Posts: 1273
Loc: New Paltz (Kerhonkson, actuall...
I've commuted on that stretch of road for several years, I'm going to guess that the accident (and many, many close calls that I've witnessed) had something to do with the one and only passing zone that is located right in front of the West Trapps lot. It's a relatively short passing zone, but the only one for the next 5 miles or so through very hill terrain. Get stuck behind a truck hauling a load here (doing 30mph in a 55mph zone), and you can tack 10 - 20 minutes onto your commute, depending on where you're headed. I drove this route from 1999 to 2003. I think the volume of traffic in this area has increased considerably since then, maybe by a factor of two. Much of the traffic is now large heavy trucks delivering material for the building boom that has occurred in the towns of Rochester and Marbletown.

I'm afraid we'll see more of these accidents as the density builds. The highway department should really look into adding some additional lanes to some portions of 44/55.


Edited by webmaster (10/17/06 06:25 PM)
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#24515 - 10/17/06 07:52 PM Re: Town Board Meeting [Re: webmaster]
Julie Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 01/16/00
Posts: 2090
Loc: SoCal
Speaking of parking - last Saturday we saw 8-10 cars PARALLEL PARKED ON 44/55 between the steel bridge and the overlook. That's just plain stupid and dangerous. I was astounded, frankly.

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#24516 - 10/17/06 08:53 PM Re: Town Board Meeting [Re: Julie]
pda Offline
addict

Registered: 08/30/01
Posts: 623
Loc: Bergen County NJ
That's the insidious nature of the blatant overlook parking violations. People get the idea that if no one is enforcing those, why not park wherever you feel like?

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#24517 - 10/17/06 09:05 PM Re: Town Board Meeting [Re: Julie]
Kevin Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 11/17/99
Posts: 201
Over on another climbing website, there is mention that people got ticketed over the weekend....

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