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#25277 - 11/02/06 09:20 PM Re: Harness Safety [Re: Dillbag]
Julie Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 01/16/00
Posts: 2090
Loc: SoCal
Dillbag, that was not stated earlier, but hypothesized. I hypothesize differently, in fact, that an unattached leg loop might catch either by friction or on a bent knee.

I use a backup not out of fear for my belay loop, but mainly to back my brake hand up, should something (rockfall, whatever) happen to me. I also use it to stop on rappel, to un-knot the rope or to clean gear. And because I use it often, I make myself use it *all* the time, so that I won't mistakenly think it's there some day when I didn't bother to use it.

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#25278 - 11/02/06 09:55 PM Re: Harness Safety [Re: Julie]
quanto_the_mad Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/14/02
Posts: 2628
Loc: brooklyn
Quote:

Dillbag, that was not stated earlier, but hypothesized. I hypothesize differently, in fact, that an unattached leg loop might catch either by friction or on a bent knee.



People have fallen out of their harnesses when they failed to properly fasten the waist belt. So there's evidence that people just fall out and the leg loops don't stop them. Maybe some of them were slowed down by the leg loops, but in the end they all slipped completely out.

If the waist belt unties, or the belay loop breaks, you're taking a FALL onto the prusik. Depending on where you're holding it, it might be a FF1 fall or greater; that's a lot to hold with just a bent knee. Especially if you're rotating backwards, the bent knee quickly becomes less positive. Also, when you start to fall, you've got to relax and let go of the prusik. But at the same time tense up the legs. That's really counter-intuitive.

Maybe it's possible, but I think it's highly unlikely.


Edited by quanto_the_mad (11/02/06 09:58 PM)
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#25279 - 11/02/06 11:56 PM Re: Harness Safety [Re: quanto_the_mad]
fear Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 06/27/03
Posts: 221
Loc: New England
Quote:

......Also, when you start to fall, you've got to relax and let go of the prusik. But at the same time tense up the legs. That's really counter-intuitive....Maybe it's possible, but I think it's highly unlikely.




Good point. You'd have to train hard to get that to ever happen in an emergency....

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#25280 - 11/03/06 12:46 AM Re: Harness Safety [Re: fear]
Dillbag Offline
old hand

Registered: 05/02/06
Posts: 1130
Loc: "The Town"
Quote:

Dillbag, that was not stated earlier, but hypothesized. I hypothesize differently, in fact, that an unattached leg loop might catch either by friction or on a bent knee.




yup... might just like I might win the lottery or might become the president...

I'm gonna stick to clipping my prusik to the main loop of my waist belt... cause I'm not really a might kinda guy
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#25281 - 11/05/06 02:24 AM Re: Harness Safety [Re: Dillbag]
dalguard Offline
veteran

Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 1515
Loc: CT
How many years have belay loops been in use? How many have failed? I'm not changing anything about anything. You can hardly think of something that's less worth worrying about than this. It's very sad for his family but please, people, lay down friction strips in your bathtub or change the batteries in your smoke detector or eat more oatmeal. Forget about this.

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#25282 - 11/05/06 03:10 AM Re: Harness Safety [Re: dalguard]
rg@ofmc Online   content
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 12/25/99
Posts: 2468
Loc: Poughkeepsie, NY
The most sensible comment posted on the four forums I read.

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#25283 - 11/05/06 07:00 AM Re: Harness Safety [Re: rg@ofmc]
Chas Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/22/01
Posts: 1754
Loc: Flagstaff
I agree with MOST of what Dalguard said except Its not that I am not going to change ANYTHING. As usual, occasionally check your gear and if its getting excessively warn, heed that little voice that says replace it, be it cam slings, ropes, harness what have you.

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#25284 - 11/05/06 11:33 PM Re: Harness Safety [Re: Chas]
GOclimb Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/26/01
Posts: 2359
Loc: Boston
Bingo. I had been climbing in a harness in which one of the leg loops was worn approx 3/4 of the way through, and the belay loop was worn approx 1/4 of the way through. It was time to toss it, as my partner reminded me every time she saw it. Finally, after this sad accident, I heeded her good advice.

GO

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#25285 - 11/06/06 05:05 PM Re: Harness Safety [Re: pitfall]
Mim Offline
old hand

Registered: 01/27/00
Posts: 999
Loc: Gunks
I have always cut the belay loop of my harness... instead I put two lockers to rap off threaded where the belay loop would go.
I was told this was a weaker system than a belay loop. I never quite understood why... (if someone does, please explain).

I always use a prossik attached to my leg loop as well.

Everyone has their own system...
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#25286 - 11/06/06 06:43 PM Re: Harness Safety [Re: Mim]
empicard Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/29/01
Posts: 2954
Loc: LI, NY
Quote:

I have always cut the belay loop of my harness... instead I put two lockers to rap off threaded where the belay loop would go.
I was told this was a weaker system than a belay loop. I never quite understood why... (if someone does, please explain).






it has the potential to tri-axially load the carabiners.
which is bad.
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