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#36376 - 04/08/08 10:48 PM Re: Barack Obama [Re: chazman]
acdnyc Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 11/10/04
Posts: 208
Loc: NYC/Kerhonkson
February 13, 2007
Obama Restructures a Remark on Deaths
By THE NEW YORK TIMES
DURHAM, N.H., Feb. 12 — Senator Barack Obama of Illinois said Monday that he had misspoken when he suggested that the lives of more than 3,000 American soldiers killed in Iraq had been “wasted.”


They were wasted. We all know that the Iraq war is wrong and now it's like 4000 lives wasted.

A war based on lies is always wrong. But, at least we will be there for another 10 years. Then the world will know that we aren't quiters and cut and runners.
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#36391 - 04/09/08 11:57 AM Re: Barack Obama -- silly cartoons [Re: acdnyc]
oenophore Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/24/01
Posts: 5967
Loc: 212 land

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#36434 - 04/10/08 05:24 PM Re: Barack Obama -- silly cartoons [Re: oenophore]
pedestrian Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/05/02
Posts: 2244
Loc: a heavily fortified bunker!
Damn right those lives were wasted. Let's see, what's the reason we invaded Iraq and not every other petty dictatorship that didn't like us and might have been developing weapons? Oh, right: Iraq has oil. Others don't. Now look at Iraq's production: 3 million barrels/day during Saddam's heydey. 1 million barrels/day during the latter part of the second Gulf war. Because of poor security under US control and extremist attacks on oil infrastructure. So I'd say we've done a real "bang-up" job.


Edited by pedestrian (04/10/08 05:25 PM)

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#36442 - 04/10/08 10:40 PM Re: Barack Obama -- silly cartoons [Re: pedestrian]
Mike Rawdon Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/29/99
Posts: 4276
Loc: Poughkeepsie
Yea, but even at that depressed production rate, it 30 BILLION DOLLARS/year of oil that now we control.

(Unfortunately the war costs 3X that amount...)

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#36444 - 04/10/08 11:43 PM Re: Barack Obama -- silly cartoons [Re: Mike Rawdon]
pedestrian Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/05/02
Posts: 2244
Loc: a heavily fortified bunker!
at that depressed production rate, it is 2 million barrels per day less than it could be, that's 2 million barrels that could be flowing into the world market, keeping prices down, but aren't. whether we control it isn't as important: oil is a global commodity and the global supply affects global prices.

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#36512 - 04/18/08 12:02 AM Re: Barack Obama [Re: Daniel]
acdnyc Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 11/10/04
Posts: 208
Loc: NYC/Kerhonkson
It is about oil.

The pipe line through Afghanistan, that was the USSR's goal, didn't work. Now it's our goal.

Along with permanent bases in Iraq to control the oil and a staging area to get the rest in Syria and Iran. (Anyone catch C-span on 4/15)

Just because we, who am I kidding, we, (HA) the oil barrens, have control of the largest reserves of oil in the world doesn’t mean we will ever have cheap oil ever again. By cheap, $1.00 a gallon, not $2.25 a gallon. $2.25 isn't cheap by our standards it's just less expensive then what we are paying and what we will be paying soon. $4.00
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#36539 - 04/19/08 03:59 AM Re: Barack Obama -- silly cartoons [Re: pedestrian]
Daniel Offline
veteran

Registered: 05/23/01
Posts: 1515
If it were really about oil, then wouldn't there have been a higher priority in getting production back up and functioning? Or getting whatever troops were necessary to provide the security to make it happen? Even now, production is barely above the pre-invasion levels.

Wolfowitz, Feith, Perle, I don't these guys had oil on the mind. From what I've read, they were true believers in the neocon dream of using Iraq as a staging point to transform the Middle East into a series of democracies. Bush too, probably. (I won't assume anything about Cheney.) I think they believe it so much that they bought their own b.s. and saw what they wanted to see, discounting any evidence to the contrary.

Because if it were really all about oil, I don't think that even these guys would have botched it so badly.

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#36580 - 04/21/08 04:43 PM Re: Barack Obama -- silly cartoons [Re: Daniel]
oenophore Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/24/01
Posts: 5967
Loc: 212 land

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#36638 - 04/22/08 09:25 PM Re: Barack Obama [Re: Fraser]
oenophore Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/24/01
Posts: 5967
Loc: 212 land

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#37005 - 05/13/08 03:37 PM Re: Barack Obama [Re: oenophore]
acdnyc Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 11/10/04
Posts: 208
Loc: NYC/Kerhonkson
Daniel,

You missed my point. It's about control, not production. Production levels in the US are somewhere around post WWII levels right now. Also, I've heard but not confirmed that they are selling Alaskan oil overseas.

It's about keeping the price of gas high, so they have this as a selling point to invade Iran and other oil countries. It's about building up mercenary armies to fight these wars if they can't get the numbers from the general population. This is way more calculated then any of us realize.

The banking industry is making trillions on the loans and they will not give it up for any reason. More war or fighting means more loans to pay for the weapons and oil to fight. It may already be an endless cycle. In eight years, look what has happened to our economy. $4.00 diesel fuel. That hasn't even reached the stores yet and when that does our cams and stoppers we need to replace will even go up. Not to mention the need to use those high end metals to make the war material.

This election is so important, it may be the last free election, not that the last two were free or without corruption.

I love to climb and spend time in the out doors so much that I find myself ignoring what is happening because I feel I can't make a change. I hope everyone really looks to the issues before voting, you may not get another chance.
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