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#37033 - 05/14/08 09:57 AM Re: Barack Obama [Re: acdnyc]
Dillbag Offline
old hand

Registered: 05/02/06
Posts: 1130
Loc: "The Town"
Alex... if you want to discuss things with people it would be helpful if you logged on and posted more than once every 3 weeks.

Most people have moved on by now... It's ok...
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#37103 - 05/18/08 03:26 PM Re: Barack Obama [Re: acdnyc]
Daniel Offline
veteran

Registered: 05/23/01
Posts: 1515
 Originally Posted By: acdnyc
It's about control, not production. Production levels in the US are somewhere around post WWII levels right now. Also, I've heard but not confirmed that they are selling Alaskan oil overseas.

It's about keeping the price of gas high, so they have this as a selling point to invade Iran and other oil countries. It's about building up mercenary armies to fight these wars if they can't get the numbers from the general population. This is way more calculated then any of us realize.


Oil production levels in the US are low because there is very little easily accessible oil left in the US. Whatever stuff that's left is harder to extract, and doing so would raise the price. If it were cheaper to get it here than to import it, we would get it here.

Even if it were true that Alaskan oil is being exported, it wouldn't matter. Oil is a truly global commodity, and the price is set by global demand and global supply. If Alaskan oil is being exported, that supply would bring down the price of oil overall--including the massive amounts of oil we'd need to import regardless of whether we kept all the Alaskan oil for ourselves or not.

I don't buy the theory that the US is invading other countries to take oil off the market and keep prices high. Such actions are motivating polices to get us off of oil; lower demand in the long term will not increase profits (and it may force the price to drop).

There are many far simpler explanations for high oil prices. There have been disruptions in places other than Iraq (where production today is at about pre-war levels). The demand in China and India is going up substantially. As for US gas prices, there's a bottleneck at refineries which are operating at capacity. The dollar is weak, so all imports, including oil, get relatively more expensive.

And there is plenty of evidence that Feith, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, and many others who pushed for the Iraq war were true believers in the neocon fantasy of using Iraq as a beachhead for a democratic transformation of the Middle East. And when you've got true believers, those beliefs exacerbate the tendencies we all have to accept data that support our view and reject what does not (such as with WMDs).

Yes, some conspiracy theories are plausible, but many theories are plausible; the ones that have credibility have to be backed up by evidence more than speculation.

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#37104 - 05/18/08 03:51 PM Re: Barack Obama [Re: Daniel]
oenophore Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/24/01
Posts: 5963
Loc: 212 land
Er, what does all this stuff about petroleum have to do with Sen. Obama?
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#37106 - 05/18/08 10:28 PM Re: Barack Obama [Re: Daniel]
Mike Rawdon Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/29/99
Posts: 4275
Loc: Poughkeepsie
 Originally Posted By: Daniel


And there is plenty of evidence that Feith, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, and many others who pushed for the Iraq war were true believers in the neocon fantasy of using Iraq as a beachhead for a democratic transformation of the Middle East.


Further proof of this in W's address to the Knesset this past week, when he said he sees a future where the region is totally democratic. I'm sure the Saudis just loved that.

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#37107 - 05/18/08 10:36 PM Re: Barack Obama [Re: Daniel]
pedestrian Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/05/02
Posts: 2244
Loc: a heavily fortified bunker!
 Originally Posted By: Daniel
Oil is a truly global commodity, and the price is set by global demand and global supply.


That being the case, why were US gas prices around $1/gal pre-9/11 while Euros were paying $3-$5 at the pump?

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#37109 - 05/19/08 12:22 PM Re: Barack Obama [Re: pedestrian]
Dillbag Offline
old hand

Registered: 05/02/06
Posts: 1130
Loc: "The Town"
Tax structure perhaps?
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#37110 - 05/19/08 02:57 PM Re: Barack Obama [Re: pedestrian]
Daniel Offline
veteran

Registered: 05/23/01
Posts: 1515
 Originally Posted By: pedestrian
why were US gas prices around $1/gal pre-9/11 while Euros were paying $3-$5 at the pump?


Yup, it's taxes. Europeans tax the hell out of gas. They're now paying about $8 per gallon. (By the way, 2001 US gas prices averaged $1.41)

By comparison, Budwieser is $11/gallon.

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#37113 - 05/20/08 03:45 AM Re: Barack Obama [Re: Daniel]
tokyo bill Offline
old hand

Registered: 08/24/00
Posts: 793
Loc: Tokyo
I paid JPY 171/liter for gas on a trip to the crags this past weekend. Call it USD 6.50/gallon or so.

A political impasse caused a special supplementary gas tax to temporarily lapse over here a few weeks ago, and the price instantly dropped around JPY 25/liter - a bit under a buck a gallon for regular. And that was just a supplementary gas tax; all the normal gas taxes remained in place. When they rammed a replacement bill through, the price popped right back up again.

Folks in the States have no clue....

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#38932 - 08/09/08 10:44 AM Re: Barack Obama [Re: chazman]
oenophore Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/24/01
Posts: 5963
Loc: 212 land
Call him O'Bama.
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#39780 - 09/16/08 03:44 AM Re: Barack Obama [Re: oenophore]
acdnyc Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 11/10/04
Posts: 208
Loc: NYC/Kerhonkson
"Alex... if you want to discuss things with people it would be helpful if you logged on and posted more than once every 3 weeks."


Who the hell are you posting my name and not posting yours? I post when I get a chance and I will comment anytime I want.

Is that ok with you...dillbag.

If you have a problem with a post send it to me personally, or if you have a problem with people posting after a certain time maybe you should just meet at Starbucks and keep your comments to yourself. Right?

Yeah, I know I'm right. But, thanks anyway.
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