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#27598 - 03/13/07 02:01 AM Re: Quotes attached to belay chains? [Re: Kent]
rg@ofmc Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 12/25/99
Posts: 2472
Loc: Poughkeepsie, NY
...they pulled all comments made about every event nationwide, including those made by Mim, RG, GO, and Alice.

Kent, our comments (I now have two) are still up as far as I can tell. The url is the original one posted, http://www.stepitup2007.org/article.php?id=56.
Maybe that location is no longer linked from inside their web page---I didn't check---but you can still go there directly, read previous comments, and post.

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#27600 - 03/13/07 02:56 AM Re: Quotes attached to belay chains? [Re: rg@ofmc]
Kent Offline
old hand

Registered: 01/21/00
Posts: 1038
Loc: The Bayards
Hey Rich,

Navigating from their front page earlier in the day brought one to the link you have posted I believe. If one navigates from their front page now, the New Paltz event isn't listed at all, at least not that I can find. Perhaps I'm simply having synaptic issues today.

Thanks for the tip on the older (I think), still active, direct link though.


Edited by Kent (03/13/07 03:01 AM)

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#27622 - 03/13/07 06:20 PM Re: Quotes attached to belay chains? [Re: Kent]
rg@ofmc Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 12/25/99
Posts: 2472
Loc: Poughkeepsie, NY
The event has been cancelled.

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#27623 - 03/13/07 08:10 PM Re: Step It Up 2007 [Re: Dillbag]
MohonkPreserve Offline
stranger

Registered: 11/22/05
Posts: 8
RESPONSE FROM THE MOHONK PRESERVE:

Thank you to all of you for expressing your concerns. Please be assured that THIS EVENT IS CANCELLED. We at the Mohonk Preserve were never asked about this proposed event and never condoned it. In early February, one of our staff alerted us to the action posting on the Step It Up site. We contacted the event organizer, Alana Sagin, who graciously agreed to our request not to hold this event on the Preserve. We then alerted Step It Up, who confirmed that the cliff action was cancelled. We’ve now contacted Step It Up again to ask them to update their site to reflect this.

For the full text of our response, see Step It Up

Thanks very much,

Debi Clifford, Communications Director

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#27627 - 03/14/07 02:47 AM Re: Step It Up 2007 [Re: MohonkPreserve]
chip Online   content
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 10/06/01
Posts: 2679
Loc: Sittin' Pretty in Fat City
Thank you to the Preserve for your response and well thought out follow through.

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#27677 - 03/19/07 03:10 AM Re: Quotes attached to belay chains? [Re: rg@ofmc]
johnm Offline
newbie

Registered: 04/03/02
Posts: 36
 Originally Posted By: rg@ofmc
The event has been cancelled.


But is the slippery slope argument still not fallacious?

Ok, sorry to dig. I really would like climbers as a cult
to get along and support each other more ...

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#27679 - 03/19/07 06:12 AM Re: Quotes attached to belay chains? [Re: johnm]
rg@ofmc Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 12/25/99
Posts: 2472
Loc: Poughkeepsie, NY
But is the slippery slope argument still not fallacious?

Slippery slope arguments are usually not fallacious, since they typically involve logical consequences of the premises. But sometimes people refer to a logical consequence as "fallacious" when what they really mean is "improbable." So when a slippery slope argument adduces a highly improbable though perfectly logical consequence, it is often said to be fallacious, especially by those who do not wish to be bound by the conclusion.

In the case of using the cliff as a billboard for causes, I find the slippery slope argument that one such use will encourage more such uses both relevant and convincing, and the Step It Up episode looks to me like evidence for this position, which was originally advanced with respect to tagging rappel stations.

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#27692 - 03/19/07 09:46 PM Re: Step It Up 2007 [Re: Dillbag]
yellowhouse Offline
stranger

Registered: 03/19/07
Posts: 12
Loc: NYC
I did not get to see the original article before the event was cancelled, but:

I cannot believe that the Gunks community and the Mohonk Preserve does not support this event.

It's time to look at the bigger picture. Our actions are having an adverse effect on the planet, and this grassroots movement is doing their best to curb the greed and ignorance of America.

This is not a political issue. This is a human existence issue. There should be no arguement that we need to take action in order to cut back on our carbon emmisions. So what if they decided to take action on April 14th. Maybe they might actually make a difference. I'll admit High E may not be the best location, but the message must get out there. Clearly people aren't listening. Use the parking lots at the preserve on any spring/summer/fall weekend as a barometer. There are more poor mileage subaru's, BMW's, Sport Util's, and trucks there than befit's a supposedly conservationist-minded demographic.

Be careful, we climber might just be hippocrits.

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#27693 - 03/20/07 01:24 AM Re: Step It Up 2007 [Re: yellowhouse]
learningtolead Offline
old hand

Registered: 04/16/02
Posts: 981
Loc: a wanna be kerhonkson-er
Oh yeah, let's step it up by doing something we already do for fun!! woohoo. who needs to sacrifice anything or do any real work towards a goal? who needs to do anything other than a pointless gesture? as i said on the step it up site before it got taken down, you can't work towards saving the environment by littering, no matter how temporary. that's what's hypocritical.

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#27694 - 03/20/07 03:44 AM Re: Step It Up 2007 [Re: learningtolead]
chip Online   content
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 10/06/01
Posts: 2679
Loc: Sittin' Pretty in Fat City
My understanding is that the AMC hopes to bring pressure on congress to effect environmental change and stop global warming through this campaign. While I believe it is possible that we are having a small effect on the global warming deal, I find that the vast majority of evidence is completely correlational and not causal. I'm not talking about the ozone, but rather the overall cyclical cooling and warming that is part of how we all got here on the kind of earth we consider normal. Sort of like our Presidency in relation to our country, it seems our emissions activity is more like the flea on an elephant's back. While the planet continues to come out of the little ice age and re-warm again for the umpteenth time, it would take naught but a couple good volcanic eruptions to put us back there again. Many cycles have occured and resulted in huge shifts well before we came along. Yes, lets push Kyoto for the U.S. while China builds 200 new coal burning plants using the highest sulfer content coal known! Anyone else remember all the scientists who warned we were starting another ice age in the 70s? They were reacting in good faith to the data available at the time but appear to have missed the mark. This is not meant to start debate about global warming, although I'm sure some will have to let me know how superior you are with a booklet of quasi-knowledge pushed by some poly-sci teacher, simply letting you know why I do not support politically motivated, short term thinking, tripe of the moment stances and don't see how placing a sign across a beautiful scenic face would be of any real benefit to mankind and the earth. I value the recreational and environmental gains made through the AMC, such as Yosemite becoming a park,etc. but do not agree with this particular gesture as accomplishing anything. Voting and personal education is the power, not demonstrations, which generally push away most people from a cause. I'm done. Was that a rant?

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