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#31782 - 08/01/07 05:44 PM
CHECK THAT WEBBING!
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old hand
Registered: 05/02/06
Posts: 1130
Loc: "The Town"
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This is in conjunction to the "Weekend Accident Report" thread... Check that webbing! Please read this little excerpt from RC.com... Re: (gunked) Gunks Accident(s) this weekend?
Aug 1, 2007, 1:40 AM
Post #12 of 21 (387 views)Yeah, I witnessed the fall. It was BIG!!! I was at the ledge between the first pitch anchor of Hawk and Peregrine. I didn't see where he fell from, although I was told it was from the Minty anchor. I will say that he finished falling, at most, 10 feet above the second pitch Minty anchor and off to the left of it. From my angle, it was quite obvious. My best guess on his fall was in the 50 ft. range. What's the distance between anchors 2 and 3 on Minty?
By the time I got down to help, he was wrapped up and strapped down to the litter. I assisted with the carry out as best I could. Still nursing my sprained ankle from a few weeks ago.
His right leg was busted. I'm just guessing on this one, but he might have done some back damage because of the way he fell. When he came to a stop on the rope, he was facing the sky and did a pretty severe back-bend(arms out and all) as best I could make out.
It was a pretty well executed carry-out especially considering the guy's size(maybe 225-250 lbs.?) and the steep terrain and sharp bends on the descent trail. It wen't off without a hitch. Bob, Jim and Dave we're guiding in the area and their groups were very helpful as well as everyone else around.
I heard somebody say (don't remember who) that he messed up clipping in to the anchor and his partner heard him say "Oops" before he fell.
That's all I know about this one.
-Jason The victim was a friend of mine named Dave. Pretty much, he clipped off to the Minty tree rap anchor to go off belay and build a anchor to belay up the second. For some reason, he only clipped one piece of webbing. When he wieghted his Daisy chain, the webbing broke and he fell over the edge. Dave says he fell 40 - 50 feet and badly broke his leg - pins, traction, etc. They later found the piece of webbing and there was a really worn spot, probably behind the tree. He won't be climbing for at least 4 months. Lessons learned - Always clip more than one piece of webbing. Dave is pretty good about this, he just made the mistake once. -Check the webbing you are clipping into.This webbing looked new except the worn spot that broke. Some of those rap stations have birds nests of old, nasty webbing and it can be hard to find the bomber ones. My own plan is to start bringing extra webbing with me on climbs, clean off alot of the old webbing and replace it with at least 2 pieces of new webbing. Bolded for emphasis...
Edited by Dillbag (08/01/07 05:44 PM)
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...anethum graveolens cucumis sativus!
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#31804 - 08/01/07 07:49 PM
Re: CHECK THAT WEBBING!
[Re: Dillbag]
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 05/01/01
Posts: 3134
Loc: in your backyard
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Unrelated to the circumstances of the accident above. (As I was not there, can not judge, and the people involved seem to know clearly what went wrong)
I think what makes good practice is if someone is going to add yet another sling to any of the sling nests hanging around, that they should cut the suspect ones and get rid of them, not just add yet another sling to the mess. I see this a lot at the Gunks (mostly on the easier trade routes), where people just keep slapping on more and more slings. Although on the flip side it does make for a nice game of Russian roulette, as in pick any one sling to clip into and see if it holds
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2 fresh slings by themselves are better then 2 fresh slings with 10 crappy ones surrounding them IMHO
Edited to Add: As RG pics shows below, might as well cut um before they even get to that stage tempting someone to clip old tattered sh*t mixed in amongst decent slings, but of course you gotta check them!
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#31816 - 08/02/07 12:59 AM
Re: CHECK THAT WEBBING!
[Re: crackers]
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old hand
Registered: 04/16/02
Posts: 981
Loc: a wanna be kerhonkson-er
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I don't really understand why someone would get to the top of a pitch and clip into only a strand or two of webbing and then lean back on it. I put my own sling around the tree (if there is one) before I set my anchor or just go ahead and set the anchor before going off belay and leaning back.
But then I don't understand why people do all kinds of things... I don't know if it's always been like this or not because I've only been climbing at the gunks for 6 years or so, but I am honestly surprised there aren't more accidents. Every weekend I'm there I see people doing things I think are crazy or irresponsible. I kinda hate to look around for fear of seeing someone taking a huge tumble.
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#31817 - 08/02/07 01:04 AM
Re: CHECK THAT WEBBING!
[Re: learningtolead]
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 04/30/01
Posts: 4237
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That's what Millbrook and the Adirondacks are for............
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#31822 - 08/02/07 02:28 AM
Re: CHECK THAT WEBBING!
[Re: Smike]
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stranger
Registered: 05/17/06
Posts: 8
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That lower green piece of webbing looks brand new. That is the back-up to the more worn pieces above. Just a little shock loading to the tree if the upper webbing fails! At least you know your back-up is new(er). 
Edited by JurassicBark (08/02/07 02:29 AM)
Edit Reason: to add the smile!
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#31828 - 08/02/07 11:40 AM
Re: CHECK THAT WEBBING!
[Re: JurassicBark]
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 08/29/01
Posts: 2941
Loc: LI, NY
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no no, its for the upward pull. so its truely a multi directional anchor!
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tOOthless
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
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#31906 - 08/03/07 09:41 PM
Re: CHECK THAT WEBBING!
[Re: Dillbag]
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stranger
Registered: 05/03/07
Posts: 10
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I am pretty new to the gunks and I am not quite sure how some things work. For example is still not clear to me what those 15 $/climber/day are used for. I perfectly know that "climbing is only one facet" of the activity that takes place in the preserve area and that any climber shouldn't rely on anything else than his own skills/equipment, but still I would be curious to know which part of those 15 bucks, if any, is used for the "maintenance" of the cliff.
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#31908 - 08/03/07 10:18 PM
Re: CHECK THAT WEBBING!
[Re: Ale]
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newbie
Registered: 06/20/06
Posts: 46
Loc: Atlanta
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still I would be curious to know which part of those 15 bucks, if any, is used for the "maintenance" of the cliff. All of it. Putting a fresh coat of paint on the cliffs every year is expensive. Kidding aside, I assume the money goes toward salaries for the rangers and maintenance of man-made improvements. Whatever, I'm happy enough to pay for climbing at such a great place that I went ahead and bought an annual pass (pays for itself in a week's worth of climbing). JL
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#31915 - 08/04/07 04:13 AM
Re: CHECK THAT WEBBING!
[Re: Ale]
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 05/14/02
Posts: 2606
Loc: brooklyn
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I am pretty new to the gunks and I am not quite sure how some things work. For example is still not clear to me what those 15 $/climber/day are used for. I perfectly know that "climbing is only one facet" of the activity that takes place in the preserve area and that any climber shouldn't rely on anything else than his own skills/equipment, but still I would be curious to know which part of those 15 bucks, if any, is used for the "maintenance" of the cliff.
There's more info on what the preserve does overall on their website. The MP Annual Report lists the income and expenses as follows: Operating income $2,047,051 Membership 22% Contributions 22% Interest & Dividends 12% Special Programs/Events 12% Entry Fees 11% Grants 10% Other fees 6% Nature Shop 3% Other income 2% Operating Expenses $2,003,537 Stewardship 26% Education 16% Research 12% Land Protection 11% Development 11% Communications 10% Administration 5% Membership 4% Nature Shop 3% Volunteers 2%
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"Be ot or bot ne ot, tath is the nestquoi." Thamle, by Malliwi Rapesheake
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#31919 - 08/04/07 03:43 PM
Re: CHECK THAT WEBBING!
[Re: quanto_the_mad]
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Pooh-Bah
Registered: 12/25/99
Posts: 2320
Loc: Poughkeepsie, NY
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It used to be the case that there was no "maintainence" of the cliff. Since the Preserve installed bolts, one can only hope that they have some sort of periodic inspection schedule. Still, such a program would involve little actual work and would consume a miniscule portion of the money raised from day and membership fees, so I think it is still fair to guess that virtually no part of the daily use fee goes for cliff "maintainence."
Basically, the cliffs are opened to climbers on an "as is" basis, and the Preserve takes no responsibility for all the crap climbers add in their never-ending pursuit of convenience. Any webbing you find up there is not being inspected or maintained by anyone other than your fellow climbers, who may be doing nothing more than threading their rap lines and sailing off without even a cursory look at the composition of the anchor.
Hence the title of this thread.
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#31921 - 08/04/07 07:38 PM
Re: CHECK THAT WEBBING!
[Re: rg@ofmc]
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old hand
Registered: 05/02/06
Posts: 1130
Loc: "The Town"
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Hence the title of this thread. Exactly! And even if someone was supposed to go out and "inspect" the webbing... I would still check it myself! Cause, well... What if they missed one.
_________________________
...anethum graveolens cucumis sativus!
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#31949 - 08/06/07 02:35 PM
Re: CHECK THAT WEBBING!
[Re: Dillbag]
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Pooh-Bah *
Registered: 09/07/01
Posts: 2483
Loc: Davis Sq., MA
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I'm pretty good at checking rap slings as a rule, but was particularly vigilant this weekend in light of this thread! Placed two new rap slings on The Wedge at Whitehorse this weekend. Unfortunately, I forgot my knife, so couldn't cut away any tat, but neither station was that bad in terms of there still being plenty of free space inside the rings.
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we're all living proof that nothing lasts
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#32097 - 08/09/07 01:41 PM
Re: CHECK THAT WEBBING!
[Re: crackers]
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stranger
Registered: 08/09/07
Posts: 1
Loc: Connecticut
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I've gotten into the habit of always carrying a couple of tied shoulder length slings, a couple of rap rings, and a knife whenever I climb. Replacing a rap anchor is cheaper than buying new underwear.
If you're too lazy or cheap to do that, in the Trapps you can generally just walk 50 feet and use a different anchor if the one at the top of your climb is too manky.
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#32104 - 08/09/07 03:13 PM
Re: CHECK THAT WEBBING!
[Re: Javier]
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 07/10/00
Posts: 3532
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...in the Trapps you can generally just walk 50 feet and use a different anchor if the one at the top of your climb is too manky. And just as a reminder since no one has said it yet...except for a minuscule handful of climbs, you can walk off from any climb in the Trapps and the Nears. There are a large number of climbs where this is faster than rapping.
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- Marc
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#32106 - 08/09/07 03:25 PM
Re: CHECK THAT WEBBING!
[Re: MarcC]
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 10/06/01
Posts: 2554
Loc: Sittin' Pretty in Fat City
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SHHHH! Don't tell anyone how nice it is up on top of the ridge. They might spoil the quiet and chase away the animals, to say nothing of eating up all the berries.
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#32110 - 08/09/07 03:39 PM
Re: CHECK THAT WEBBING!
[Re: chip]
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old hand
Registered: 05/02/06
Posts: 1130
Loc: "The Town"
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You can climb all the way to the top?
I thought you had to stop at the bolted anchors... How else would you get down?
_________________________
...anethum graveolens cucumis sativus!
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