i do

In my opinion, a gear rating should tell you how good the gear is once you get it in, not how tired you'll be after placing it (that effect should---also in my opinion---be factored into the climbing grade, but this is not common practice).

An example of this is the hard part of Directissima. It got a 5.9 rating when it had two fixed pins and you could clip and go. Now that you have to place gear while hanging on, I think it should be 5.10a. But of course someone follows it on the run and says, nah, only 5.9. But the leader had to take a hang to finish the route...

"Difficult to place" should mean something else, namely that gear at the rated level can be found but is not obvious or immediately obtained; the climber will have to fiddle, look about creatively, and perhaps have specialized gear (tricams, ballnuts, certain brands of brassies, etc.)

i basically agree with you...that the gear rating is about the gear once its in....

but as for directissima...you have to place one piece on the traverse...just one...you can place the first piece from a stance by reaching out as far as you can...and you can see the crack, select the appropriate cam, clip a draw to it, and pre clip to the rope...so all you have to do while moving through it is clip and go or in this case plug and go...

it was 5.9 with a hammer and pins wasnt it? hanging out to place or clean one of those pins would surely give a bigger pump that plugging one cam in....

There's a traverse on Directisima?? Isn't that sort of an oxymoron? Why not just go straight up the outside edge of the buttress? Seems to make it more straight forward. More..."direct" if you will.

RR

P.S. I'm just being a curmudgeon. Of course I know the regular Directissima has a traverse, always thought it was silly though.

RR, a curmudgeon? Heavens no! It just can't be. Next you'll tell me that Strat is antisocial or Smike can't spell...

Well, I think that's a matter of taste. I think I placed three pieces on the traverse. Because they're small active pieces, I simply didn't trust one to hold me if I fell, so I place two early on, and then as I was getting near the end, I place another to protect the finish of the traverse. And frankly, I got pumped silly, hung, and just made a general embarrassment of myself. My second time on it, I think I placed the same gear, but worked out the feet much more carefully, and got to the end with arms to spare.

As for what the rating should be, that's beyond me to say.

GO

Rob, what do you reckon that variation goes at? 9/9+/noneof theabove??

If you do it the true directissima way...there is a move after you turn the buttress. You can either head up right into a scoop, then step back left and up, or you can go straight up the wall on your left. That move I think approaches the 5.10a grade. Everything else is just consistent 5.9+ climbing. Possibly even easier than the regular route.

RR

exactly what he said...5.9 all the way, _maybe_ one 5.10a move...

If it's 5.9...

Why did RR tell me it was a 10a when we climbed it...?