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#33997 - 10/24/07 09:31 PM Re: "The Moral Equivalent Of War" [Re: Daniel]
oenophore Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/24/01
Posts: 5978
Loc: 212 land
swatting migrating birds

Here I may show my ignorance of ornithology and/or the history of wind technology.
Might wind-driven ultrasonic whistles at blade tips alert birds to the blade threat?
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#34000 - 10/24/07 11:59 PM Re: "The Moral Equivalent Of War" [Re: MarcC]
Mike Rawdon Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/29/99
Posts: 4276
Loc: Poughkeepsie
Yup, seen the ones out near Palm Springs that you pictured. The farm south of I-10 is much more extensive than your photo shows. And, sorry to disappoint you, but I get a thrill out of seeing it too. It sure beats looking at a coal pit mine or an oil refinery.

The bird killing thing? Well that just doesn't bother me.

The turbines I saw this summer were striking for their size. These were the real deal, 50meter blade jobbies. Impressive in their size. Nothing I've seen in the US was that big.

Back to the original post... I wonder what Democratic (Vice) Presidential types are preaching about THIS decade that we're going to wish we paid more heed to in, say, 2030??

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#34001 - 10/25/07 12:36 AM Re: "The Moral Equivalent Of War" [Re: Mike Rawdon]
MarcC Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/10/00
Posts: 3532
 Originally Posted By: Mike Rawdon
The turbines I saw this summer were striking for their size. These were the real deal, 50meter blade jobbies. Impressive in their size. Nothing I've seen in the US was that big.

I agree - the big ones are really impressive. See my last link above [I'll be the first to admit that it really looks Photoshopped, however the scale is accurate for the sea-borne ones].
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#34004 - 10/25/07 03:28 AM Re: "The Moral Equivalent Of War" [Re: oenophore]
Daniel Offline
veteran

Registered: 05/23/01
Posts: 1515
 Originally Posted By: oenophore
I'm not naysaying what you advocate, Daniel; just expressing pessimism over the likelihood of its adoption.

I agree that we generally respond to crises instead planing to avoid them. Still, we occasionally show the foresight to plan ahead. Europeans tax the hell out of gasoline and drive far more efficient vehicles than we do. New York City recognized a need for a third water tunnel in 1954, started construction in 1970, and is just now nearing completion.

But for every far-sighted project like the third water tunnel, you've got examples such as the recent massive growth in western cities such as Las Vegas with no clue how to provide water for the long term (especially if the last hundred years in the West, which we consider normal, actually have been abnormally wet).

So as Carter said thirty years ago, we have a choice. Whether we make the right ones is up to us. Short term gains often win out at the cost of long term consequences. We can at least try to convince our actual and virtual neighbors that it's important to look to the long term results this time. The attempt may fail, but why not give it a shot?

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#34123 - 11/01/07 08:43 PM Re: "The Moral Equivalent Of War" [Re: Daniel]
oenophore Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/24/01
Posts: 5978
Loc: 212 land
Every little bit helps

Tue Oct 30, 2:19 PM ET

ROME (AFP) - The Sicilian town of Castelbuono has replaced garbage trucks with donkeys and claims to be saving money as well as helping to beat global warming.

Since last February, six donkeys have replaced the four rubbish trucks in the town of 10,000 people.

By replacing garbage trucks with donkeys "we are making savings and making the world a better place" with less pollution, Castlebuono's mayor Mario Cicero said in a statement on the town's website.

A donkey costs around 1,200 euros (1,730 dollars) to buy, plus an about 2,000 euros a year for food and cleaning, compared to a 30,000 euros for a truck that needs 7,000 to 8,000 euros maintenance per year, he added.

The donkeys have picked up nearly 140 tonnes of rubbish, according to the mayor.

Each carrying two wooden boxes, the donkeys are accompanied by garbage men who have been renamed "ecological operators".

Several other towns in the Calabria and Tusany regions are believed to have followed Castelbuono's lead.
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