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#34532 - 11/20/07 04:19 AM Help me pick tools and crampons!!!
socialist1 Offline
member

Registered: 08/05/04
Posts: 147
Loc: New Brunswick, NJ
Ok, here's the deal. Im new to ice and looking to get tools and crampons. Right now Im looking at either the New BD Cobras, Quarks, or Nomics for tools. Im open to suggestions for crampons.

Thoughts??

Thanks,

Ross

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#34534 - 11/20/07 05:56 AM Re: Help me pick tools and crampons!!! [Re: socialist1]
Aya Offline
old hand

Registered: 11/18/04
Posts: 754
Loc: Climbing somewhere
Go swing them and pick what you like and what works for you. Cuz nobody else's opinion really matters. But yeah - think what you'll be using them for mostly, and what you're going to be doing and go from there. There are about five hundred million reviews and threads and opinions out there on various sites, so ignore them all, go demo stuff at like mountainfest and whatnot and decide on your own.
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#34539 - 11/20/07 01:42 PM Re: Help me pick tools and crampons!!! [Re: socialist1]
d-elvis Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 04/26/00
Posts: 3650
Loc: Central PA
Buy the best you can afford....avoid the off brands.... even if you quit climbing next year, good tools and crampons keep their resale value and you can get 75-85% of your money back reselling them.

Stick with Petzel-Charlet or Black Diamond
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#34541 - 11/20/07 01:48 PM Re: Help me pick tools and crampons!!! [Re: socialist1]
learningtolead Offline
old hand

Registered: 04/16/02
Posts: 981
Loc: a wanna be kerhonkson-er
I would argue against the nomics for your first/only set of tools. They don't have a hammer which is limiting and a set of Quarks or similar tools would be more versatile, in my opinion. Beyond that, borrowing some tools is the best way to decide what you prefer. I love my rages and don't like the swing on the Quarks but most people seem to love them.

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#34542 - 11/20/07 02:22 PM Re: Help me pick tools and crampons!!! [Re: learningtolead]
Aya Offline
old hand

Registered: 11/18/04
Posts: 754
Loc: Climbing somewhere
You'll get used to whatever you end up with.
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#34543 - 11/20/07 02:23 PM Re: Help me pick tools and crampons!!! [Re: Aya]
Aya Offline
old hand

Registered: 11/18/04
Posts: 754
Loc: Climbing somewhere
Oh and do what d-elvis said, just stick with major brands (BD, Petzl, and don't forget Grivel), and as for crampons, figure out what kind of climbing you'll mostly be doing, look at the manufacturer's handy dandy chart (they all have em), figure out which model will work for you and make sure it fits on your boots.
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#34545 - 11/20/07 03:11 PM Re: Help me pick tools and crampons!!! [Re: Aya]
Smike Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/01/01
Posts: 3143
Loc: in your backyard
Don't get Grivel Alp Wings, they use the Evolution picks, which when I was using them, leading with one tool became a common practice as the thin profile picks had a habit of breaking on really cold days.

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#34546 - 11/20/07 04:17 PM Re: Help me pick tools and crampons!!! [Re: Smike]
socialist1 Offline
member

Registered: 08/05/04
Posts: 147
Loc: New Brunswick, NJ
Thanks for the advice guys. Im definitely going to fondle the tools in question as much as possible.

I really wish I could get my hands on the new Cobras... I heard they are sweet and got a lot of recommendations but I havent seen them anywhere yet. I guess I will wait til I can see them before ruling them out.

Good point about the nomics, Molly. I was thinking I may shy away from them anyway.

Any suggestions that I should consider for grivel??

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#34547 - 11/20/07 04:34 PM Re: Help me pick tools and crampons!!! [Re: socialist1]
Smike Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/01/01
Posts: 3143
Loc: in your backyard
Grivel Taa-K-oon's are really sweet. They use the Cascade pic.

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#34548 - 11/20/07 04:54 PM Re: Help me pick tools and crampons!!! [Re: Smike]
chip Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 10/06/01
Posts: 2675
Loc: Sittin' Pretty in Fat City
I'm not a guru, but I've liked the Grivel Rambo crampons and they have held up very well. I've also got some of their old tools, which seem fine. I tend to be a more gentle tool swinger than some and like a slightly lighter tool. R&S have a good selection to swing, other than Grivel, and the DMM tools look quite good as well. R&S and The Mountaineer will let you rent tools and crampons, which is a great way to figure out what feels good while letting someone else fit crampons to your boots.

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#34549 - 11/20/07 06:15 PM Re: Help me pick tools and crampons!!! [Re: Aya]
Mike Rawdon Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/29/99
Posts: 4275
Loc: Poughkeepsie
 Originally Posted By: Aya
You'll get used to whatever you end up with.


Ah...we're you telling us a year ago that you didn't like your new tools? (apologies if I'm confused)

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#34550 - 11/20/07 08:18 PM Re: Help me pick tools and crampons!!! [Re: Mike Rawdon]
RangerRob Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/06/00
Posts: 3764
Loc: Ulster County, NY
Just remember...not all crampons will fit all boots. So when you go buy crampons, bring your boots and make sure they all work and play nicelt with each other. Climbing gear is not returnable!

RR

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#34551 - 11/20/07 08:54 PM Re: Help me pick tools and crampons!!! [Re: RangerRob]
paulraphael Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 01/22/02
Posts: 321
Loc: New York, NY
Also, make sure you get tools meant for ice climbing. A lot of higher end new tools are designed for hard, steep, mixed climbing, which is a lot different from swinging tools into ice. These tools all work on ice, just not nearly as easily. The balance and swing is wrong. They're made for hooking. As an example, you'll have much more fun climbing ice with BD Vipers than with BD Fusions.

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#34561 - 11/21/07 12:02 AM Re: Help me pick tools and crampons!!! [Re: Mike Rawdon]
Aya Offline
old hand

Registered: 11/18/04
Posts: 754
Loc: Climbing somewhere
 Originally Posted By: Mike Rawdon
 Originally Posted By: Aya
You'll get used to whatever you end up with.


Ah...we're you telling us a year ago that you didn't like your new tools? (apologies if I'm confused)


Yeah. But see, I had my old tools, which I was used to, and the new tools were radically different!
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#34562 - 11/21/07 12:05 AM Re: Help me pick tools and crampons!!! [Re: chip]
Aya Offline
old hand

Registered: 11/18/04
Posts: 754
Loc: Climbing somewhere
RR, you can return climbing gear at EMS. We don't encourage it, but you can.

Oh and re: the new cobras, supposedly BD sent out a few pairs last week/this week, so you might see them around some time soon.
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#34584 - 11/21/07 06:39 PM Re: Help me pick tools and crampons!!! [Re: Aya]
CrackBoy Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 2435
Loc: Republic of Davis
i have a pair of rambos that I would be willing to sell cheaply. they are a hybrid rambo/rambo comp now after i swapped out the inside of the foot rails.

PM me if interested
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#34587 - 11/21/07 09:44 PM Re: Help me pick tools and crampons!!! [Re: socialist1]
Mike Rawdon Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/29/99
Posts: 4275
Loc: Poughkeepsie
First get boots that fit your feet. Then buy crampons that fit the boots. IMO the 'poons are not so important in the early years, so you might consider a used pair. If you buy something snazzy later on, you'll have your first pair to loan to friends. Same with the axes, but here I am going to agree with those who suggest trying a bunch first. There ARE differences in tools, and yes, the top brands can easily be resold, but why take a $100+ hit if you don't have to. I borrowed 8 different tools before I bought, and they are still my favorites (Quarks FWIW).

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#34619 - 11/25/07 04:37 PM Re: Help me pick tools and crampons!!! [Re: Mike Rawdon]
crackers Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 03/21/01
Posts: 3424
Loc: pdx
i'm pretty sure that if they're still around, you can get alp wings with cascade picks instead of evolution picks.

also, if you buy crackboy's old poons and want the other side of the comp rail, i'll send it to you for postage. do you want it crackboy?

finally, agree with everything aya said. you've got to swing 'em to know what you want.

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#34622 - 11/26/07 12:02 AM Re: Help me pick tools and crampons!!! [Re: crackers]
CrackBoy Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 2435
Loc: Republic of Davis
i don't need it, i haaven't been ice climbing in god knows when, plus i just broke my ankle/leg so its likely not going to happen this season
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#34624 - 11/26/07 12:58 PM Re: Help me pick tools and crampons!!! [Re: CrackBoy]
empicard Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/29/01
Posts: 2954
Loc: LI, NY
that sucks! what happened?
feel better.
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Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.

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#34626 - 11/26/07 05:37 PM Re: Help me pick tools and crampons!!! [Re: crackers]
Smike Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/01/01
Posts: 3143
Loc: in your backyard
 Originally Posted By: crackers
i'm pretty sure that if they're still around, you can get alp wings with cascade picks instead of evolution picks.


Where and how? The pick angle is way different on each(see image of picks lined up by the connector plate)

Poor design to have different head angles that require different picks, unlike BD where you can put almost any pick on any tool.


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#34627 - 11/26/07 05:49 PM Re: Help me pick tools and crampons!!! [Re: empicard]
CrackBoy Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 2435
Loc: Republic of Davis
 Originally Posted By: empicard
that sucks! what happened?
feel better.


I would love to say it was something adventurous and daring involving saving a baby

Was playing soccer and some dude took me out from behind after i stripped him of the ball.

So luckily it :isn't a very bad break, only really a microfracture and it was on my fibula, a non weight bearing bone

am wanting to shed the crutches but if i walk too much it hurts
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#34628 - 11/26/07 05:50 PM Re: Help me pick tools and crampons!!! [Re: empicard]
crackers Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 03/21/01
Posts: 3424
Loc: pdx
get better dude. sorry to hear you broke your leg.

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#34677 - 11/29/07 02:53 PM Re: Help me pick tools and crampons!!! [Re: empicard]
Chas Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/22/01
Posts: 1754
Loc: Flagstaff
That does suck- sorry about the leg.

If you can, try top demo gear at an ice fest or use friends. As was said above, stay with the biggies, BD, Charlet Moser, Grivels, and slightly below them I'd also put DMM. After those I'd definately steer clear of the other companies. I tried a pair of Grivels last year, when a guy and I were working on putting up a fairly hard mixed climb (somewhere around M8ish/WI5). For him, Grivels were awesome, but for my swing I found they were too aggressive. I ended up going with BD Reactors. For my swing I found them to be much better. What may be awesome for one person may suck for another.

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#35146 - 01/08/08 08:20 PM Re: Help me pick tools and crampons!!! [Re: Chas]
daryl512 Offline

veteran

Registered: 10/07/00
Posts: 1256
Loc: Rochester, NY
Back when I was climbing ice (God, how long ago was that?!) I was very happy with the BD Vipers. For me they worked very well on steep ice as well as softer mixed routes. I was also a big fan of the Grivel Rambo Comp crampons. The Grivels seemed to "stick" to the ice better than the. BD Bionics I had.

Daryl
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