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#35361 - 01/28/08 01:27 PM Master Cams
chip Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 10/06/01
Posts: 2675
Loc: Sittin' Pretty in Fat City
I've been waiting for a while for these to come out, expecting a better version of Aliens. I've recently found them on the Metolius site but was dissapointed at what appears to be fairly modest cam ranges, significantly less than Aliens. Anyone have any info about these and why the smaller expansion? Does this have anything to do with a change in cam ratios? I thought this would be a no brainer purchase but now I'm not so sure.

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#35362 - 01/28/08 03:36 PM Re: Master Cams [Re: chip]
rg@ofmc Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 12/25/99
Posts: 2467
Loc: Poughkeepsie, NY
Metolius believes in slightly smaller cam angles, which decrease the range but increase the holding power. Arguments can be made on either side. I don't think any very small cams have a real range; they need to be placed tight to be at all reliable, and then a bit more holding power looks like a good idea.

I'm not saying this is a decisive argument for the Metolius cams (personally, I think BD C3's are the best at this point), but on the other hand I don't think the lack of "range" in the smaller sizes disqualifies them from serious consideration.

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#35365 - 01/28/08 04:33 PM Re: Master Cams [Re: rg@ofmc]
chip Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 10/06/01
Posts: 2675
Loc: Sittin' Pretty in Fat City
Thanks. I'm looking to replace my green and yellow Alien sizes. The C3s are great pieces but I still feel happier with 4 lobed cams when I can. Maybe I just need to get a few whips on them to feel better.
I'm still not thrilled with the .4 camalot, which sometimes just won't quite fit where the old yellow Alien will. And I need to get fitter!

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#35380 - 01/28/08 09:53 PM Re: Master Cams [Re: chip]
GOclimb Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/26/01
Posts: 2359
Loc: Boston
I haven't played with the new Metolius cams (has anyone?) but I did used to have a set of the Zeros. They too had a small range, and, to me, it made them absolutely terrible pieces.

By definition, a small piece already has a very thin range, so when you decrease the range, to me, you have a marginal piece except in picture-perfect placements. And in many cases, I had no placement at all where an Alien would slide in perfectly.

I won't be buying the new Metolius cams. It's a shame, but I guess they're going with what they believe in, and I can't fault them for that.

GO

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#35400 - 01/30/08 03:33 AM Re: Master Cams [Re: GOclimb]
Mark Heyman Offline
old hand

Registered: 12/23/99
Posts: 1123
Loc: South Jersey (Pinelands)
I ruled out more Zeros too. Think I bought three and still have two. I find them too flexible and to easy to get stuck – partly because of the flexibility. The cable gage doesn’t instill tremendous confidence either.

The 0.4 Camalot: it is one of my favorite pieces. To me it might be the smallest cam I consider truly bomber. I don’t consider it an Alien replacement though. I use a few old Aliens and C3’s for that.

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#35536 - 02/08/08 02:41 PM Re: Master Cams [Re: Mark Heyman]
Chas Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/22/01
Posts: 1754
Loc: Flagstaff
I'll take Zeros over Aliens. One of my climbing partners worked really hard keeping a guy alive when his Alien separeted at the braze when he weighted it (not fell) and hit his head on a ledge (he had a helmet on but what possibly saved his life is that he bled pretty badly preventing excessive pressure to the brain, so I REALLY don't understand why people STILL like or love their Aliens)- go figure.

But the C3's absolutely rule. There is a .13a crack that I've tried to get the second ascent and I'll try again shortly that requires only black aliens (or purple C3's) for 30-40ft(before going to offwidth- go figure). The 4 lobes of the Aliens are a bitch to get into it, and often ends up being a really manky placement once I do get it in, but the purple C3 goes in so easily that it feels like I'm cheating, but has held pretty good wingers (and this is pretty soft sandstone).

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#35541 - 02/08/08 09:38 PM Re: Master Cams [Re: Chas]
GOclimb Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/26/01
Posts: 2359
Loc: Boston
 Originally Posted By: Chas
I'll take Zeros over Aliens. One of my climbing partners worked really hard keeping a guy alive when his Alien separeted at the braze when he weighted it (not fell) and hit his head on a ledge (he had a helmet on but what possibly saved his life is that he bled pretty badly preventing excessive pressure to the brain, so I REALLY don't understand why people STILL like or love their Aliens)- go figure.


I'm sorry. That sounds horrible. I can't speak for anyone else, but I trust my Aliens simply as much as I've tested them (which is to around 4kN).

 Quote:
But the C3's absolutely rule. There is a .13a crack that I've tried to get the second ascent and I'll try again shortly that requires only black aliens (or purple C3's) for 30-40ft(before going to offwidth- go figure). The 4 lobes of the Aliens are a bitch to get into it, and often ends up being a really manky placement once I do get it in, but the purple C3 goes in so easily that it feels like I'm cheating, but has held pretty good wingers (and this is pretty soft sandstone).


Glad you like them!

And certainly, as long as different gear is, well, different, there will always be placements that are better for one or another style.

GO

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#35542 - 02/08/08 09:51 PM Re: Master Cams [Re: Chas]
Mark Heyman Offline
old hand

Registered: 12/23/99
Posts: 1123
Loc: South Jersey (Pinelands)
 Originally Posted By: Chas
I'll take Zeros over Aliens


I agree Chas. I was referring to my rack with a few old Aliens. I did not mean to imply that I would trust CCH or their current product. I don’t, which is why I bothered to try C3’s in the first place.

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#36154 - 03/28/08 04:06 PM Re: Master Cams [Re: Mark Heyman]
quanto_the_mad Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/14/02
Posts: 2628
Loc: brooklyn
I was just looking around online and see that some places have them listed for purchase.

Anyone pick some up yet?
_________________________


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#36158 - 03/28/08 05:18 PM Re: Master Cams [Re: quanto_the_mad]
empicard Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/29/01
Posts: 2954
Loc: LI, NY
i would have if rock and snow had them in stock last weekend, but alas, no luck yet.
_________________________
tOOthless

Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.

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