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#38572 - 07/21/08 03:43 PM Re: Ultras (for EDK and whoever) [Re: dalguard]
The Lisa Offline
addict

Registered: 04/26/05
Posts: 411
Loc: Da Bronx
There was a great showing by all gunks.commers! BIG congrats to Steve for finishing 7th in a very competitive field.
I got to meet Korona too - Eric, I hope you slept well in your tent after your great run. I had a tough time getting much sleep in a real bed in an air conditioned room.
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#38577 - 07/21/08 05:22 PM Re: Ultras (for EDK and whoever) [Re: The Lisa]
pedestrian Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/05/02
Posts: 2244
Loc: a heavily fortified bunker!
Lisa, you came in 7th woman. Congratulations.

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#38579 - 07/21/08 06:00 PM Re: Ultras (for EDK and whoever) [Re: pedestrian]
The Lisa Offline
addict

Registered: 04/26/05
Posts: 411
Loc: Da Bronx
Ta!
The 100K results are mixed in with the 100-milers but it is possible to figure out. 7th woman and 37th overall, it seems.
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#38580 - 07/21/08 06:37 PM Re: Ultras (for EDK and whoever) [Re: The Lisa]
dalguard Offline
veteran

Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 1515
Loc: CT
Lisa, wow! 7th is fantastic. We've got the 7s all tied up on Gunks.com.

Ridiculous the way they mixed those results. We couldn't figure out who was what.

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#38582 - 07/21/08 09:47 PM Re: Ultras (for EDK and whoever) [Re: dalguard]
korona Offline
journeyman

Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 93
Loc: NoVA
Lisa, Dawn and Steve, great to meet you this weekend. Congrats to both Steve and Lisa on top 10 finishes!

Lisa, I ended up doing most of my sleeping in the med tent. After hanging out with you at the finish, I hobbled over to the cots, lay down, and did my Bill's Aid Station trick again.

Lesson learned: long ultras are not to be done without a crew. At least for me, I could benefit from a mentally competent person to help me get calories in and skanky clothes off at the end of a 100.

Hope to see you at a race soon!

Eric

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#38583 - 07/21/08 10:24 PM Re: Ultras (for EDK and whoever) [Re: korona]
pedestrian Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/05/02
Posts: 2244
Loc: a heavily fortified bunker!
It's tough to crew this thing. When making predictions, your runner will assume a consistent pace throughout the event. Such simple math will inevitably be wrong, wrong, wrong for a 100 miler because they will start out strong and finish slow. they might assume the correct average pace but even so, they'll be up to 2 hours ahead of this pace around the 50-70 mile mark. the race doesn't start until 70 miles in, when it gets dark again and everybody starts dragging. Many runners in this event simply power-hiked the last 30 miles, taking 12 hours to do so.

13 minute miles are slow for most runners, the runner will naturally run faster at the outset. No doubt it's hard to run that slow when you're used to going faster! Especially in the heat we had, most of the do-not-finishes seem to result from those who push too hard too early. 30 minutes ahead of schedule after the first 4 hours worked out well for Lisa, but we heard stories of those who were 2 hours ahead very early and inevitably dropped out.

I'd been following along Lou Dawson's blog about crewing the 24 Hours of Sunlight, another 24 hour endurance event. Supporting an event like that, even though it's in the winter, seems simple by comparison. In that event, the relay teams especially were putting in very consistent, predictable times per lap, the variability was coming from the rest times they were taking between laps. Want to have hot food ready for your team member when they come down from a lap? No problem just look at your watch, start cooking ramen 10 minutes before they're gonna arrive. At the VT100? You're probably better off leaving the cooking to the aid station volunteers, it's what they're there for and you really have no idea when your runner is showing up.

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#38584 - 07/21/08 10:39 PM Re: Ultras (for EDK and whoever) [Re: pedestrian]
korona Offline
journeyman

Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 93
Loc: NoVA
Much agreed -- meeting your runner during the race is definitely tough. In many ways, crewing these things takes more skill than running them. Hats off to all those who crewed VT. I paced MMT and, after discussions with my runner, ended up with a 6 hour fastest - slowest window for our meet up.

For my own weird physiology (tendency to bunk once I stop running but not during running) I think a crew would be most helpful at the finish. Finishes are hard to estimate as well.... but at least here crews can wait in relative comfort.

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#38585 - 07/21/08 10:45 PM Re: Ultras (for EDK and whoever) [Re: korona]
pedestrian Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/05/02
Posts: 2244
Loc: a heavily fortified bunker!
Oh, I definitely think running it is tougher! These 100 milers provide a unique opportunity to participate though, a non-runner with some recent long powerhikes under his (or her) belt might be capable of pacing some of the slower finishers. Very much in keeping with the VT Adaptive Ski & Sport philosophy ;\)


Edited by pedestrian (07/21/08 10:48 PM)

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#38586 - 07/21/08 11:33 PM Re: Ultras (for EDK and whoever) [Re: pedestrian]
The Lisa Offline
addict

Registered: 04/26/05
Posts: 411
Loc: Da Bronx
Eric, you poor thing. I should have thought to have you come back to our hotel so you could shower and crash on the couch. Definitely line up some support and comfort for your next 100.
I learned a lot about giving crew a bigger window for arrival times in future. I also made sure I could survive without them in case car trouble came up or something else delayed them. However, they were there when I needed them and they had everything ready for me whenever I came into the station.
Runners joke that 'CREW' stands for 'Cranky Runner, Endless Waiting' - I was determined never to be a cranky runner but they still had to put up with the endless waiting. It is a long day out for them as well as the runners.
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#38590 - 07/22/08 01:40 PM Re: Ultras (for EDK and whoever) [Re: The Lisa]
dalguard Offline
veteran

Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 1515
Loc: CT
We mostly went straight to each aid station so there was no worry about missing him, but I did have something that helped tremendously with guessing when he'd show up. I don't think I was ever more than 15 minutes off.

What we did was pull the split times from the previous year (they were on the website) for a couple of people who finished about where he hoped to finish and used those as a guide for the spacing between stations. We'd add their average delta to the time he came in to the previous station and come up with a predicted time for the next station. As Nate said, the runner's pace is changing throughout the race, plus straight mileage doesn't tell you how steep or technical the terrain is.

My runner was VERY cranky.

Eric, we were looking out for you at the first couple of stations to at least give you a morale boost, but Steve jumped to the front earlier than I expected. That first aid station is so far that people have striated already. FWIW, Steve's crew pumped too many calories into him and he ended up vomiting a couple of times. So maybe it's a no-win situation on a day like Saturday.

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