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#37256 - 05/28/08 03:11 AM Re: Screaming Girl/High E/Cut Rope [Re: D75]
empicard Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/29/01
Posts: 2954
Loc: LI, NY
No comment yet on a party of FIVE climbing high E?
Sounds like trouble from the get-go.
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#37257 - 05/28/08 03:19 AM Re: Screaming Girl/High E/Cut Rope [Re: alicex4]
fear Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 06/27/03
Posts: 221
Loc: New England
We don't know what happened. Assuming she was freaking out (i.e. endless screaming) and unable to compose herself... If she was a few feet above the GT ledge and really close to the edge what's the big deal about slinging her in and cutting the rope? Seems like a quick solution to a simple problem. Alternatives (i.e. prussics) would require her to get it together and have put her in more danger.

And then I'd have to smack the original leader for having gumbies simulclimbing anything AND then putting them on an autoblock device that he didn't know how to use.

I'd imagine there's been more than enough screaming from seconds dangling from Modern Times. Hopefully no knives will enter into solutions there....

-Fear

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#37258 - 05/28/08 01:20 PM Re: Screaming Girl/High E/Cut Rope [Re: fear]
GOclimb Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/26/01
Posts: 2359
Loc: Boston
 Originally Posted By: fear
Alternatives (i.e. prussics) would require her to get it together and have put her in more danger.


I'm quite certain that without giving it too much thought you (or almost anyone here) can come up with at least one better solution.

For example - a competent member of the party of 5 could lead up above her to where the good horizontals are, build an anchor, rap down to her, transfer her off her rope and onto him (or her) and then continue to rap down to the ledge.

GO

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#37259 - 05/28/08 01:57 PM Re: Screaming Girl/High E/Cut Rope [Re: GOclimb]
d-elvis Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 04/26/00
Posts: 3650
Loc: Central PA
Cannot say enough about a quality belay knife ;\)
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#37260 - 05/28/08 02:08 PM Re: Screaming Girl/High E/Cut Rope [Re: fear]
Coppertone Offline
old hand

Registered: 08/17/00
Posts: 1055
Loc: Newtown, CT
 Originally Posted By: fear
Alternatives (i.e. prussics) would require her to get it together and have put her in more danger.



So giving a knife to a person who is in a panic is a great idea, nothing bad can ever come of that.


Edited by Coppertone (05/28/08 02:09 PM)

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#37261 - 05/28/08 02:14 PM Re: Screaming Girl/High E/Cut Rope [Re: GOclimb]
Kent Offline
old hand

Registered: 01/21/00
Posts: 1038
Loc: The Bayards
 Quote:
For example - a competent member of the party of 5 could lead up above her to where the good horizontals are, build an anchor, rap down to her, transfer her off her rope and onto him (or her) and then continue to rap down to the ledge.


If she was in fact hanging and couldn't unweight the rope it's a pretty safe bet that most climbers wouldn't be able to do this.

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#37262 - 05/28/08 02:18 PM Re: Screaming Girl/High E/Cut Rope [Re: Coppertone]
Julie Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 01/16/00
Posts: 2090
Loc: SoCal
OK, I have a new hypothesis.

From the GT at No Glow, I saw girl hanging, *and* a guy to her right. This guy may have been the leader of the party of 5, who would have climbed up to and above her, set some gear at The Move, and gotten her to tie in to another of his ropes that went though the gear and down to the GT. Essentially, this would put her on lead from the GT, but hanging from The Move. Then what I heard - "I know how to do it!" would be her referring to knowing how to tie in.

Then the "1, 2, 3" could have been the 5 people on the GT, hauling her in/up on that end so she could un-tension her own rope, and untie from it. (I'm kind of doubting the people from MT could differentiate webbing from a rope). Maybe that didn't work to un-tension her, so the next step was to cut her own line, while still on the line from below.

Just a thought... the party from below would have at least two ropes. Also, someone had to climb above her to set gear for her to hang/fall on - otherwise she would have factor 2'd past the GT, and we would have heard sirens.


Edited by Julie (05/28/08 02:21 PM)

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#37264 - 05/28/08 02:52 PM Re: Screaming Girl/High E/Cut Rope [Re: Julie]
mikeharo Offline
stranger

Registered: 06/06/06
Posts: 6
Julie,

Did one member of the party of 3 have a full face beard?

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#37265 - 05/28/08 03:01 PM Re: Screaming Girl/High E/Cut Rope [Re: mikeharo]
Julie Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 01/16/00
Posts: 2090
Loc: SoCal
I wasn't close enough to see that level of detail, Mike, sorry. In addition, if I'm right, then the only person I saw from the party of 3, was the hanging woman; the other second would be above her and around the corner from my point of view, and the belayer was ... lost up top somewhere.

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#37266 - 05/28/08 03:02 PM Re: Screaming Girl/High E/Cut Rope [Re: Julie]
dalguard Offline
veteran

Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 1515
Loc: CT
 Quote:
Also, someone had to climb above her to set gear for her to hang/fall on - otherwise she would have factor 2'd past the GT, and we would have heard sirens.

Agreed. If she was hanging from "the move" then she didn't just cut the rope and fall onto the GT ledge. Either she was closer to the GT ledge, within grabbing range, or there was another safety system in place when she cut the rope. We weren't there and we don't know.

If I'd been in the party below, I'd have climbed above her and built an anchor. I'd have attached both of us to the anchor and would have tried to give her a hand to pull her back onto the rock (or fix whatever was keeping her stuck). If that didn't work, I can see how cutting the rope would be my next choice.

Let's also remember that it's often impossible for the leader on High E to hear anyone below the move.

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