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#37566 - 06/03/08 10:05 PM Re: Screaming Girl/High E/Cut Rope [Re: Dillbag]
Smike Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/01/01
Posts: 3143
Loc: in your backyard
 Originally Posted By: Dillbag
...what's the 'S' stand for?


STFU \:\/

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#37567 - 06/03/08 10:34 PM Re: Screaming Girl/High E/Cut Rope [Re: Smike]
Dillbag Offline
old hand

Registered: 05/02/06
Posts: 1130
Loc: "The Town"
...so... it's Smike... or STFU MIKE! \:D
_________________________
...anethum graveolens cucumis sativus!

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#37590 - 06/04/08 11:20 PM Re: Screaming Girl/High E/Cut Rope [Re: Dillbag]
EMan Offline
stranger

Registered: 05/28/08
Posts: 12
Jeez... is this still going on?

There is only one person truly at fault: Leader of Team A

Team B's leader, while being an idiot, would not have had the chance to prove his idiocy if Team A's leader had simply lowered them. No stuck autoblock. No non-functioning 3-1 system. No bear between him and belay device. He chose not to lower them.

As for the middle of the rope/end of the rope discussion. If Team A's leader was onsighting, then he would have looked in the guidebook first, which tells you the final pitch is 70 feet long... enough for a 70m, 60m, or even 50m rope to middle/end it. If he had already been on it, he might have known that he could tie one person right into the middle, and another at the end. Note that I said "might" as he obviously did not have enough sense to do so.

So, again: Fault? Leader of Team A. Period.

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#37593 - 06/05/08 12:27 AM Re: Screaming Girl/High E/Cut Rope [Re: EMan]
Mike Rawdon Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/29/99
Posts: 4276
Loc: Poughkeepsie
 Originally Posted By: EMan


So, again: Fault? Leader of Team A. Period.


So why the name calling re. Team B??

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#37602 - 06/05/08 03:47 PM Re: Screaming Girl/High E/Cut Rope [Re: Mike Rawdon]
retr2327 Offline
member

Registered: 06/14/07
Posts: 108
"As for the middle of the rope/end of the rope discussion. If Team A's leader was onsighting, then he would have looked in the guidebook first, which tells you the final pitch is 70 feet long... enough for a 70m, 60m, or even 50m rope to middle/end it."

I'm all in favor of consulting guide books for data. But I'd caution you (and anyone reading this) against relying on the supposed pitch lengths when deciding what length rope you need. As anyone who has climbed at Red Rocks can tell you, the information in the guide books can be way off. If the accuracy is "mission-critical," you'd better have a real good plan B in mind . . . .

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#37604 - 06/05/08 04:28 PM Re: Screaming Girl/High E/Cut Rope [Re: retr2327]
pedestrian Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/05/02
Posts: 2244
Loc: a heavily fortified bunker!
retr, this is not rocket science. belayer watches as the rope goes up. if middle has not passed by the time leader is on top, belayer ties in to middle of the rope at whatever point is hanging in front of him, without waiting for the leader to pull in the slack. belayer follows the pitch, and then the third follows. if the middle has already passed belayer, on the other hand, then simulclimbing or some other Plan B will be required. If the two seconds are not capable of simulclimbing, the leader should lead short pitches and establish extra belays, or the party should carry two ropes.

BTW, the leader of Team B is still an idiot, even if he did everything exactly as Tim described. Nonetheless, I'm equally inclined to believe Eric and Dan's account that they handed the girl a knife and then asked her to take a LEAD FALL while HOLDING A KNIFE. Not smart.

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#37606 - 06/05/08 04:50 PM Re: Screaming Girl/High E/Cut Rope [Re: pedestrian]
Mark Heyman Offline
old hand

Registered: 12/23/99
Posts: 1123
Loc: South Jersey (Pinelands)
 Quote:
they handed the girl a knife and then asked her to take a LEAD FALL while HOLDING A KNIFE.


According to one member of that party this is true, though it didn't sound like much of a fall. See the RC thread.

----------------------------------------------------

I can at least think of situations where a second would incur some responsibility.

I don't think this happened in this case, but one example would be if the leader and second did not know each other and the second misrepresented themselves. I had this as one of several reasons for an embarrassing climbing situation last fall. The one thing I will say for myself was that I didn’t let anyone else put themselves in any danger and I left a small rack of gear to keep it that way.



Edited by Mark Heyman (06/05/08 04:52 PM)

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#37607 - 06/05/08 04:50 PM Re: Screaming Girl/High E/Cut Rope [Re: pedestrian]
quanto_the_mad Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/14/02
Posts: 2628
Loc: brooklyn
Yeah, the falling while holding a knife is the part that bothers me the most. Even if she's on another line, both ropes run close to each other, a little flailing and it would be too easy to sever the other line.

Team B's leader could have cut the rope himself. He's anchored in, he's not panicking, he's not flailing, he can cut the rope high enough that the risk of cutting anything else is minimal. But then the risk is all on him, maybe he doesn't want the responsibility.
_________________________


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#37630 - 06/06/08 12:30 AM Re: Screaming Girl/High E/Cut Rope [Re: pedestrian]
MarcC Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/10/00
Posts: 3532
 Originally Posted By: pedestrian
...and then asked her to take a LEAD FALL while HOLDING A KNIFE.

No, it was basically a top rope fall, as described by Tim upthread a ways:
 Originally Posted By: Tim
Our lead climber ascended to the roof with our second rope and setup and anchor. He put the rope through the anchor, which was slightly above her waist. She was close enough to grab our rope and tie in using a figure 8 knot. Then I put on her on belay. With the rope tight her feet were about a foot or so from the cliff. Still we heard nothing from her leader. Therefore we suggested she cut the rope and when she did she landed softly on to the cliff as if on a top rope.
_________________________
- Marc

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#37631 - 06/06/08 01:41 AM Re: Screaming Girl/High E/Cut Rope [Re: pedestrian]
retr2327 Offline
member

Registered: 06/14/07
Posts: 108
"if the middle has already passed belayer, on the other hand, then simulclimbing or some other Plan B will be required. If the two seconds are not capable of simulclimbing, the leader should lead short pitches and establish extra belays, or the party should carry two ropes."

Great plan. Maybe you should revisit the earlier comments.

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