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#37671 - 06/07/08 08:57 PM Releasing the new Reverso3
bzpx Offline
stranger

Registered: 05/21/08
Posts: 9
Loc: CNY
There were a lot of posts in the High E thread about how people use autoblocking belay devices to bring up a second but do not know how to release the device in order to lower the second, so I thought I would share something interesting I found the other day.

In the tech notes for the new Petzl Reverso3 (available here ) they show how to release the device by wedging the nose of a carabiner through the little loop and using the carabiner as a lever arm. They go on to specifically mention not to "use a different release method,for example with a cord, a sling, etc."

I haven't had a chance to try it (I imagine it would work similarly with an ATC-Guide) but I know these devices can be difficult to release. I was taught to girth hitch a runner through the little hole, redirect it through a carabiner on the anchor, attach it to my harness, and very slowly weight the sling.

Thoughts?

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#37676 - 06/09/08 02:10 PM Re: Releasing the new Reverso3 [Re: bzpx]
TrippleB Offline
newbie

Registered: 03/07/07
Posts: 34
Loc: NY
The new Reverso has a new clip point on which you can attach a carabiner which you can pull on to release the autolock friction on the device without the hassle of rigging a simple pully system.

The BD ATC-Guide has the same clip point, and can be used in the same manner.

The new Reverso, the ATC-Guide and the original Reverso can all have their autolock friction points "unlocked" when weighted by rigging a simple pully system as hinted to in the post above. When done correctly this is a safe, effective and reliable technique. The system can be backed up with prussik knots and even be used to haul a troubled partner through a tough move (provided you have the strenght to parter-weight ratio).

I will not describe the technique here however to avoid a misunderstanding that could result in improper use of the technique which can be dangerous.

I learned the technique from a Petzel rep about 5 years ago when the Reverso debuted on the market. Contact your local rep or guide for instructions on the proper use of the devices mentioned above.

In my opinion both of these devices have made climbing safer insofar that I no longer see leaders belaying "from the hip" (not a good technique). If you are a leader and do not own one of these I recommend them wholeheartedly. You are provided the ease of the grigri and the functionality of a munter without the weight or rope kinking.


Edited by TrippleB (06/09/08 02:20 PM)
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#37678 - 06/09/08 02:24 PM Re: Releasing the new Reverso3 [Re: TrippleB]
Dillbag Offline
old hand

Registered: 05/02/06
Posts: 1130
Loc: "The Town"
 Quote:
munter without the weight or rope kinking


A munter will not kink the rope if set up and used correctly...

It has to do with the orientation of the strand coming off of the knot. And I can't describe it without confusing myself...
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#37683 - 06/09/08 04:12 PM Re: Releasing the new Reverso3 [Re: Dillbag]
TrippleB Offline
newbie

Registered: 03/07/07
Posts: 34
Loc: NY
 Originally Posted By: Dillbag

A munter will not kink the rope if set up and used correctly...

It has to do with the orientation of the strand coming off of the knot. And I can't describe it without confusing myself...


If you consistantly use a munter it will twist the rope over time, causing it to "kink" up. When you reverse a munter to lower you must shift the knot to the other side of the carabiner it is tied to in order to reverse the direction of pull. This will not make a strand of the rope come off or the knot to become untied, however it will facilitate twisting of the rope's core.

Sorry I was not specific about my use of the word "kink". I did not mean that the rope would get knotted while using the munter and kink up thus complicating your belay. I ment that consistant use of a munter can twist the core of your rope and shorten its life or make it less supple to use over time.

The munter, however, is an invaluable knot, and is an excellent belay alternative if you have dropped your device, or find yourself needing to belay a second climber below and you don't have a grigri, reverso or a ATC-guide or similarly designed device.

This type of minor misunderstanding is exactly why I decline to describe techniques over these forums that I would be otherwise more than willing to share.
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#37687 - 06/09/08 05:19 PM Re: Releasing the new Reverso3 [Re: TrippleB]
Mark Heyman Offline
old hand

Registered: 12/23/99
Posts: 1123
Loc: South Jersey (Pinelands)
 Originally Posted By: TrippleB
The new Reverso has a new clip point

ala ATC-Guide


 Quote:
belaying "from the hip" (not a good technique).

Plesse explain.


 Quote:
You are provided the ease of the grigri and the functionality of a munter without the weight or rope kinking.

I assume you intended these to apply respectively.

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#37689 - 06/09/08 05:37 PM Re: Releasing the new Reverso3 [Re: Mark Heyman]
TrippleB Offline
newbie

Registered: 03/07/07
Posts: 34
Loc: NY
double post


Edited by TrippleB (06/09/08 05:38 PM)
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#37690 - 06/09/08 05:37 PM Re: Releasing the new Reverso3 [Re: Mark Heyman]
TrippleB Offline
newbie

Registered: 03/07/07
Posts: 34
Loc: NY
 Originally Posted By: Mark Heyman
 Originally Posted By: TrippleB
The new Reverso has a new clip point

ala ATC-Guide

Ah, right, was responding to original poster. I think I explained the similarity in devices.

 Quote:
belaying "from the hip" (not a good technique).

Plesse explain.

"From the hip": Using an ATC or similar device from the hip with a climber below you, without redirection of the climber's end of the rope through an anchor point above (note that redirection creates a "short" toprope situation, which actually puts more force on an acnhcor than belaying directly off the anchor with a grigri, reverso or munter)is not a good technique for bringing up a second because if the second falls, the belayer can find themselves fighting quite hard to hold the climber (not as much mechanical advantage as you have to pull your brake hand upward to lock off and are unable to sit back to use your body weight to lock the rope).

 Quote:
You are provided the ease of the grigri and the functionality of a munter without the weight or rope kinking.

I assume you intended these to apply respectively.

No, actually I ment to say that the munter is heavy and the gri gri kinks up the rope(please see a complete description of my use of the word kink in the post above).


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TrippleB, because TripleB just doesnt look as cool.


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#37692 - 06/09/08 06:00 PM Re: Releasing the new Reverso3 [Re: TrippleB]
bzpx Offline
stranger

Registered: 05/21/08
Posts: 9
Loc: CNY
I suppose I should have been clearer when referring to the "little loop." I meant the new clip in point. What I am most curious about is why Petzl would specifically say _not_ to use cord or webbing through the new clip in point (I assume they are implicitly referring to the redirect/pulley method or releasing the device, explained above).

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#37693 - 06/09/08 06:21 PM Re: Releasing the new Reverso3 [Re: bzpx]
pedestrian Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/05/02
Posts: 2244
Loc: a heavily fortified bunker!
Tripp,

Just use a hip belay. Wuss.

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#37694 - 06/09/08 06:41 PM Re: Releasing the new Reverso3 [Re: pedestrian]
TrippleB Offline
newbie

Registered: 03/07/07
Posts: 34
Loc: NY
Ped,

I actually use a device I made myself, custom made from old rusty razorblades.

It makes toproping exciting.
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TrippleB, because TripleB just doesnt look as cool.


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