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#37268 - 05/28/08 03:15 PM Re: Screaming Girl/High E/Cut Rope [Re: Julie]
quanto_the_mad Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/14/02
Posts: 2628
Loc: brooklyn
That actually makes sense. There's a post by mojomonkey at the other site that says they also heard the other climbing guy say something about getting "freaked out", and "thinking it was his rope for a second". That wouldn't make sense if the 2nd climber was part of the party above, but would if the 2nd party's leader had built an anchor and had the hanging climber tied in on his rope.

Assuming the 2nd leader has her on belay, maybe they ran webbing up trough the anchor to the hanging climber and use that to try to lift her up so she could untie.

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#37269 - 05/28/08 03:29 PM Re: Screaming Girl/High E/Cut Rope [Re: dalguard]
Kent Offline
old hand

Registered: 01/21/00
Posts: 1038
Loc: The Bayards
There is no need for a knife.

You need an anchor, a 5:1 mechanical advantage lift with an autolock of some kind and a releasable knot (muenter/mule or mariners) to her harness, and a second line (either your spidered rappel or an independently belayed lowering line or even two) to her harness.

Build the anchor, prerig the releaseable knot, build the 5:1, pick her up to unweight the knot to her harness, secure her to either your spidered rappel or tie her into both lowering lines (redundant because this is a rescue), untie her original knot, and then slowly release either the muenter/mule or mariner's to lower her onto the new line(s). Rappel or lower.

As I'm providing instruction on the intardweb, I must add...climbing is dangerous, try this at your own risk, seek out competent real life instruction....blah, blah, blah. Practice, practice, practice. Don't believe everything you read on the internet.

This stuff can be a lot of fun if you like gear and rigging. Every once in a long while it comes in very handy.

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#37271 - 05/28/08 03:58 PM Re: Screaming Girl/High E/Cut Rope [Re: Kent]
Dillbag Offline
old hand

Registered: 05/02/06
Posts: 1130
Loc: "The Town"
What Kent said...

There is NO need for a knife!

I'm not extremely well versed in all the Accidents in North American Mountaineering or all the other stories etc... But the ONLY one I could think of that was real (not a movie) was the Joe Simpson story (which was a bit more extreme than the HighE ledge) where his partner cut the rope!
And that's the only one I could think of... and his partner got BLASTED for it, even after holding him for over an hour and nearly getting himself killed in the process.
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#37273 - 05/28/08 04:08 PM Re: Screaming Girl/High E/Cut Rope [Re: Dillbag]
Coppertone Online   content
old hand

Registered: 08/17/00
Posts: 1055
Loc: Newtown, CT
You may also have to cut your rope when it gets eaten by a crack out west. I have seen many a rope remnant stuck in cracks in Red Rocks. It hasn't happened to me(yet), but I can see where it could become necessary. Cutting a rope on High E is a different story.

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#37276 - 05/28/08 04:26 PM Re: Screaming Girl/High E/Cut Rope [Re: Coppertone]
Smike Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/01/01
Posts: 3143
Loc: in your backyard
I think the Monday morning Quarter backing is almost as entertaining as the original story of the Vertical Limit ala Joe Simpson style.

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#37279 - 05/28/08 04:46 PM Re: Screaming Girl/High E/Cut Rope [Re: Smike]
Mark Heyman Offline
old hand

Registered: 12/23/99
Posts: 1123
Loc: South Jersey (Pinelands)
"the Monday morning Quarter backing is almost as entertaining as the original story "

It is!

With 2020 hindsight: Assuming the guy in the middle could help, rather than build an anchor the group of five could have simply climbed through. ItÂ’s a straight forward short pitch. Then there would have been 6 climbers topped out who probably could have hauled directly with a belay device in place to lock off. From there the girl could walk off.

I realize of course that no one at the time knew how things would turn out.


Edited by Mark Heyman (05/28/08 05:12 PM)

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#37280 - 05/28/08 04:51 PM Re: Screaming Girl/High E/Cut Rope [Re: Kent]
Julie Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 01/16/00
Posts: 2090
Loc: SoCal
One more small point to consider in the rescue scenario, Kent - as we all know, the belayer on top a) can't hear, but b) knows something's wrong. So he's pulling as hard as he can. As soon as you release tension from her own tie-in, the belayer up top may well mistake it for progress, and haul in the slack as hard as he can .... thus perpetuating the problem.

Of course, once you've hauled her back onto the rock, she could hypothetically just continue on her way (unless you've done something like cut the rope).

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#37287 - 05/28/08 05:52 PM Re: Screaming Girl/High E/Cut Rope [Re: Julie]
Kent Offline
old hand

Registered: 01/21/00
Posts: 1038
Loc: The Bayards
Julie, continuing on into fantasy land, one could put a friction knot on the rope to keep the leader from pulling up any slack put into the system.

The only rescue scenario I can think of which would require use of a knife is if the patient is wrapped up in cordage of some kind, especially if said wrapping presents an immediate medical problem, like a rope wrapped around someone's neck for example. When I was climbing a lot, I used to carry a small plastic hook knife for this possibility but fortunately never used it for anything other than cutting misc. anchor debris from the cliff.

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#37292 - 05/28/08 06:21 PM Re: Screaming Girl/High E/Cut Rope [Re: Julie]
GOclimb Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/26/01
Posts: 2359
Loc: Boston
 Originally Posted By: Julie
As soon as you release tension from her own tie-in, the belayer up top may well mistake it for progress, and haul in the slack as hard as he can .... thus perpetuating the problem.


Nope. Because he's hauling on the guy in the middle.

GO

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#37299 - 05/28/08 06:38 PM Re: Screaming Girl/High E/Cut Rope [Re: GOclimb]
quanto_the_mad Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/14/02
Posts: 2628
Loc: brooklyn
Maybe not. From the first report we assumed two people were tied in close together. But if we assume the 2nd person was the leader of the 2nd party, then there might not be anyone tied in above the hanging climber.
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