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#38155 - 07/01/08 03:38 PM Re: Landis Ban Upheld [Re: d-elvis]
paulraphael Offline

Registered: 01/22/02
Posts: 321
Loc: New York, NY
I have no opinion at all about whether or not he used drugs.

But I think the ruling is a complete sham. The mishandling of the evidence, and the ridiculously lax standards of scientific proof for these cases (well beneath what would pass in a peer-reviewed scientific paper, and WAY below what would pass as evidence in a real court) make this whole thing look like a witch hunt.

#38179 - 07/02/08 01:43 PM Re: Landis Ban Upheld [Re: paulraphael]
MurphysLaw Offline

Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 2308
Loc: Hudson Valley, NY
I agree. He may or may not have used drugs.
(Probably did, I think that most, if not all of the Pro peloton has doped and/or drugged at some point. Including a very high profile ex rider w/ the initials LA.)

Sucks that in spite of all the errors, gaffes, and utter f-ups that were made, that they still got a 'conviction'.

It's a travesty of a mockery of a sham.
"Flailing?" "Flail on!"

#38520 - 07/17/08 03:28 PM Re: Landis Ban Upheld [Re: MurphysLaw]
TrippleB Offline

Registered: 03/07/07
Posts: 34
Loc: NY
I firmly believe he did not use drugs. Several pro cyclists including Lance Armstrong believe that he did not use drugs. Phil Liggett believes that he did not use drugs.

The fact that his tests were clean prior to this one, and after this one, which was conducted unprofessionally, in direct violation of the testing rules and without the standards of care nessessary to back the results would result not only in a slam dunk declaration of "not guilty" for Landis in any US court or alternative dispute resolution forum, but would undoubetly result in a declaration of innocence.

I think Landis was a fool for fighting it though. The UCI has an immense amount of control over the sport and there was no way the USADA or the SAC was going to go against the UCI declarations. The current "black ball" of team Astana (managed by the man who was director sportif of US Postal and Team Discovery)and the lack of outcry, aside from Phil Liggett, is evidence of the UCI's deathgrip over the sport. Astana was a dirty team, but has been 100% flipped with and uses a similar multi-million dollar in house anti-doping prgram that Garmin-Chipotle and Columbia are being praised for, Bruyneel is hated by the UCI for redefining the sport of cycling (see all the changes he brought to the sport with US Postal and Lance) and bringing Lance Armstrong to the podium of the Tour. The UCI also obviously seeked to bar the ever clean Contador, who was the 2007 tour victor and leading member of Astana (the guy won the Giro d'Italia this year with ease and clean blood). Make no mistake there is a double standard at play in the world of cycling, which clouds and magnifies the doping issue.

Pro Cycling is not the cesspool that many make it out to be. Some riders do in fact dope. Just this morning I learned that Riccardo Ricco was booted from the current tour due to dopping, a rider I have been a fan of, and was excited to watch in this tour. I believe, however, that the vast majority of riders do not dope. Greg Lamond is a heroic athlete, but his campaign in the US to develop the idea that all Euro cyclists are dopped up is rediculous.

Doping is an unfortunate part of sports, all sports. I competed in cycling as a younin' and in Div I college track and I have seen a fair share of doping. Keep in mind that dropping a bunch of painkillers or using a little epinephrin is doping that can be easily gotten away with in high school and college sports. But those who used drugs were not a large group, nor were they always at the top of the podium. I and nearly all of my teammates over the years remained clean, and kicked ass with a brutal training schedule and spartan lifestyle geared towards recovery and performance. Those who live the life, on the whole, do not even consider doping. After so much sacrifice its just not worth the risks.

Despite the opinions of the uninformed, cycling is at the absolute forefront of anti doping in sports. It has the strictest rules and strictest testing and enforcement. No other sport comes close. All registered riders are subject to testing 365/24/7! No other sport has teams implementing multi-million dollar anti-doping programs. Three teams in this year's tour have spent that money to ensure their riders are clean (Garmin, Columbia, CSC), and the best team in cycling does the same (Astana). You don't see that in Football, Baseball, Football (Soccer), Tennis, or anywhere else.

There are no astrixes in cycling. Cheaters are caught and banned, unlike baseball where they still get their names in the record books.
TrippleB, because TripleB just doesnt look as cool.

#38530 - 07/18/08 04:11 PM Re: Landis Ban Upheld [Re: TrippleB]
Julie Offline

Registered: 01/16/00
Posts: 2082
Loc: SoCal
Interesting that the UCI isn't doing the testing at the Tour this year.

I don't know whether Landis used or not. I do know that Diz is spot-on, above: UCI's tests and labs would never hold up to the standards of external peer review, or a sick patient. Plus, as has been well demonstrated, the decision-making process is stacked.

So the real tragedy is that we'll never know, and that Landis's career was destroyed by what are, scientifically speaking, unsubstantiated rumors.

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