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#39363 - 08/30/08 03:55 PM Re: new guidebook in August? [Re: MarcC]
tradgunkie Offline
newbie

Registered: 09/10/03
Posts: 38
 Originally Posted By: MarcC
Sounds like you and the authors are either not very familiar with 5.8 or you're engaging in a lot of ego gratification via grade inflation.


I'm familiar with 5.8 both at the Gunks and beyond. It always humors me to climb 5.8s at other areas and notice how many of them feel like some of the 5.6s at the Gunks.

 Originally Posted By: MarcC
Yes, clueless. Even if you can manage an overhanging 5.12 crimp and sloper-fest, if you've never done offwidth, 5.6 can sure feel hard. That doesn't make it a 5.8; it just illuminates a technique missing from your quiver.


Fair play. I've done many offwidths since. I'll put it on my ticklist to go and see how this compares with my distant memory.
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#39364 - 08/30/08 04:08 PM Re: new guidebook in August? [Re: tradgunkie]
talus Offline
veteran

Registered: 08/23/04
Posts: 1259
are you f'in kidding me Baby a 5.8. it's 5.6 for sure. you pull up stuff a leg in and it's over. yes i was schooled at Vedauwoo.

plain and simple this guide book is stupid imo
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#39365 - 08/30/08 04:53 PM Re: new guidebook in August? [Re: talus]
tradgunkie Offline
newbie

Registered: 09/10/03
Posts: 38
 Originally Posted By: talus
yes i was schooled at Vedauwoo.

plain and simple this guide book is stupid imo


So were the authors of the guidebook, but I know you take personal satisfaction that you're a better climber than Zach.
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#39369 - 08/30/08 09:15 PM Re: new guidebook in August? [Re: tradgunkie]
Coppertone Offline
old hand

Registered: 08/17/00
Posts: 1055
Loc: Newtown, CT
 Originally Posted By: tradgunkie
 Originally Posted By: talus
yes i was schooled at Vedauwoo.

plain and simple this guide book is stupid imo


So were the authors of the guidebook, but I know you take personal satisfaction that you're a better climber than Zach.


It is so completely transparent that you are both a shill for the authors and looking to drum up some traffic for you site that sees none other than yourself. Plain and simple this guide book is sloppy, lacking in both consistency and quality and completely unnecessary due to the presence of the existing detailed, thorough and well thought out books by Dick. My four year old could have proof read this and found half of the mistakes. This is a sad excuse to make some quick money instead of working for a living.

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#39372 - 08/30/08 11:36 PM Re: new guidebook in August? [Re: Coppertone]
tradgunkie Offline
newbie

Registered: 09/10/03
Posts: 38
 Originally Posted By: Coppertone
It is so completely transparent that you are both a shill for the authors and looking to drum up some traffic for you site that sees none other than yourself.


I've been coming to these messageboards long before my join date suggests. I came on here because I finally had an opinion about something I read on Gunks.com. Are you telling me I'm not welcome to hang with the Gunks.com crew?

I'm here to play Devils Advocate to many people who I felt were picking up the guide, thumbing through it and looking for reasons to not like the guide. Some people were even bashing the book before it even came out or without even looking at it.

The book has its problems sure, I've already said that it does. All I'm saying is that I don't find the grades in the new guide a big deal. Goldstone's approach to looking at things objectively has impressed me. The guide suffers from inconsistencies between the description to the topos. This to me is the biggest problem the guidebook suffers from, but only a few posters have taken the time to mention that.

When William's Grey guide came out, I shouted its praises because I loved the book, I still think it's the gold standard of Gunks guidebooks. I'd link you to my review, but I don't want you to think I'm drumming up traffic for my site.

You can call me what you want, but I'm no shill for this book. If I wanted to drum up traffic for my site, don't you think I'd have done that three years ago?
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#39377 - 08/31/08 12:28 PM Re: new guidebook in August? [Re: tradgunkie]
talus Offline
veteran

Registered: 08/23/04
Posts: 1259
 Originally Posted By: tradgunkie
So were the authors of the guidebook, but I know you take personal satisfaction that you're a better climber than Zach.


yup that's what i meant. yes i know, we knew each from when I lived in Wyo.

i did check out the guide and it has beautifully constructed pages and photos. for the beginner climber that will be visiting the gunks, imo it is the great guide.
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#39378 - 08/31/08 02:14 PM Re: new guidebook in August? [Re: talus]
rg@ofmc Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 12/25/99
Posts: 2467
Loc: Poughkeepsie, NY
Tradgunkie, just for the record, I bashed the guidebook before it came out because the authors posted a sample. My bashing clearly and repeatedly stated that it was based on the sample and referred to aspects of that sample. Perhaps as a result of those comments, the sample was taken down from their site.

I haven't gotten into the grading issues, hell, two of my routes have been upgraded, so I'm lookin' good in the neighborhood. But some of the changes are so far off base as to be absurd.

As for starting out biased, I think you have a point. As I said before, there isn't a crag in the country less in need of another guidebook, so my immediate reaction was, "this is going to have to be pretty special to justify its existence." Well, the nice shots notwithstanding, the book doesn't even live up to what I would think of as bare minimum standards for a guidebook.

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#39379 - 08/31/08 03:52 PM Re: new guidebook in August? [Re: talus]
MarcC Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/10/00
Posts: 3532
 Originally Posted By: talus
for the beginner climber that will be visiting the gunks, imo it is the great guide.

I feel quite the opposite, especially considering the regradings. Don't you think that someone who does Laurel and Shockley's, both incorrectly upgraded to 5.8, are really gonna get spanked pretty badly when they decide to try some of the other 8's that weren't upgraded? Or perhaps an "easy" 9, like Ant's Line? Depending on route selection, that can actually get dangerous.
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#39380 - 08/31/08 03:58 PM Re: new guidebook in August? [Re: tradgunkie]
MarcC Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/10/00
Posts: 3532
 Originally Posted By: tradgunkie
Some people were even bashing the book before it even came out or without even looking at it.

As Rich mentioned, a lot of us justifiably bashed the book based on the sample pages posted on the book's site. The pages that were quickly taken down after the negative comments here.

And while you claim not to be shilling for the book, you've repeatedly defended the author when a number of people said he was full of crap on quite a number of things. Even this most recent post of yours has quite the defensive tone.
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#39383 - 08/31/08 07:37 PM Re: new guidebook in August? [Re: MarcC]
tradgunkie Offline
newbie

Registered: 09/10/03
Posts: 38
Ok, I take back what I said about people bashing the book prior to its release. Perhaps bashing was too strong a word.

 Originally Posted By: MarcC
[quote=tradgunkie] Even this most recent post of yours has quite the defensive tone.


Fair enough, but if someone goes after me I'm going to defend my stance.
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