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#39193 - 08/21/08 01:33 AM Re: new guidebook in August? [Re: MarcC]
rg@ofmc Online   content
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 12/25/99
Posts: 2470
Loc: Poughkeepsie, NY
Bill, we were trying to do the East Ridge of Teewinot, but ended up climbing something on the North side. We described it in the Jenny Lake ranger logbook, and I saw it listed as either a route or perhaps a variation in subsequent Ortenburger editions. Whether this insignificant bungle has survived in modern Teton guides I cannot say.

Although I don't, think, in retrospect, that the Ortenburger guide was very good, one should note that much of Teton rock has a jumbled structure that is very hard to describe, and at the time the majority of my rock-climbing experience came from the 60-foot bluffs of Devil's Lake, Wisconsin. It's amusing to make fun of the guide as I did, and as Mark has mentioned I'm not the only person who thought it was opaque, but our own inexperience in the mountain environment is more to blame than any failure of clarity on Ortenburger's part. It was, after all, the East Ridge. How effin' hard is it to follow a damn ridge to the top?

I believe we continued to blunder up a route or two on the south side of Disappointment Peak and, a little later, climbed a variation of a route I'm blanking on by McCarthy and Chouinard on one of the South buttresses of Mt. Moran.

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#39198 - 08/21/08 05:50 PM Re: new guidebook in August? [Re: rg@ofmc]
BillH Offline
journeyman

Registered: 11/16/06
Posts: 59
Loc: Maryland
Richard, thanks for the story. My very small experience suggests that Teton ridges can be pretty big and confusing. Up close they look more like vast expanses of jumbled rock than ridges.

This thread has made me think about how unusually good the William's guides are. Are there any other climbing areas that have guidebooks written over a period of 35 years by the same top-flight climber who has climbed virtually every pitch he describes? They are comprehensive; clear and accurate (based on my limited expereince and the comments of many others); consistent in level of detail, format and (most importantly) grading*; and chock full of interesting quotes, as well as history of and love for the area. The gray Dick not only helps me find my way around the Trapps, but also reacqainted me with the the hard men I idolized whan I climbed as kid in the 60s and, when I returned to climbng after a 35 year layoff, introduced me to the people, events and traditions I missed while away. The book gives me a sense of being "rooted" in the place and is a huge part of what the Gunks mean to me. Moreover, it is produced in the "old" format: just small and flexible enough to put in your pocket or hang on your rack. We are spoiled.

* Of course we can all quibble over certain climbs. I think High E is a grade easier than Baby (I don't have much off-width technique), but the fact that such minor differences stand out only demonstrates, at least in my mind, how consistent William's grading is overall.
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#39252 - 08/24/08 03:07 AM Re: new guidebook in August? [Re: rg@ofmc]
pedestrian Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/05/02
Posts: 2244
Loc: a heavily fortified bunker!
 Originally Posted By: rg@ofmc
the famously error-riddled Roxanna Brock Red Rocks guide


Hey, she may not know how to write a guidebook, but she sure knows how to, umm, stick-clip:

http://www.susanica.com/photo/32

Since when did stick clipping become "advanced" spurt technique? ;\)

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#39253 - 08/24/08 03:27 AM Re: new guidebook in August? [Re: pedestrian]
tradgunkie Offline
newbie

Registered: 09/10/03
Posts: 38
I can't believe anyone would pay money to take an advanced sport climbing class. Definitely a basic class, but what else is there to learn beyond that?
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#39261 - 08/25/08 02:38 AM Re: new guidebook in August? [Re: tradgunkie]
Dillbag Offline
old hand

Registered: 05/02/06
Posts: 1130
Loc: "The Town"
Stick clipping... DUH!
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...anethum graveolens cucumis sativus!

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#39328 - 08/28/08 02:41 PM Re: new guidebook in August? [Re: rg@ofmc]
MurphysLaw Offline
gumby

Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 2308
Loc: Hudson Valley, NY
<< and eventually someone else returned the climb to its original condition >>

Dr. Iris hare here is all about maintaining historical route integrity.


Modern Times 10b?? SWEET!!!
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"Flailing?" "Flail on!"

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#39332 - 08/28/08 04:23 PM Re: new guidebook in August? [Re: MurphysLaw]
Coppertone Offline
old hand

Registered: 08/17/00
Posts: 1055
Loc: Newtown, CT
 Originally Posted By: MurphysLaw
<< and eventually someone else returned the climb to its original condition >>

Dr. Iris hare here is all about maintaining historical route integrity.


Modern Times 10b?? SWEET!!!


Did Doublissima last week and was going to finish on Modern Times, but we decided two consecutive pitches of 5.10 would be too stiff.

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#39340 - 08/28/08 08:40 PM Re: new guidebook in August? [Re: Coppertone]
elizaclimb Offline
stranger

Registered: 08/25/08
Posts: 5

This is ridiculous! My future bumper sticker reads: "Keep it real! Stick with Dick!"

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#39350 - 08/29/08 06:57 PM Re: new guidebook in August? [Re: elizaclimb]
nerdom Offline
Pooh-Bah *

Registered: 09/07/01
Posts: 2483
Loc: Davis Sq., MA
 Originally Posted By: elizaclimb

This is ridiculous! My future bumper sticker reads: "Keep it real! Stick with Dick!"


Hmmm, might offend some lesbians, no? ;\)
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we're all living proof that nothing lasts

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#39352 - 08/29/08 09:22 PM Re: new guidebook in August? [Re: Alex]
tallgirlnyc Offline
member

Registered: 05/12/08
Posts: 194
Loc: Cold Spring NY
I think ultimately that the authors should have quoted the original Williams or Swain rating before giving their own opinion. Ditto for route changes-not cool unless duly noted. My quick perusal of the guide book made me wonder if they had actually climbed all the routes they highlighted.
Also, the sheer size of the thing when it only has a "selection" of 'gunks climbs makes me think it should live in a bookshelf instead of inside a pack.

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