Hi.

Got on City Lights this weekend. Crux was fine but higher up, there was no gear for a long long ways. I suspect I may have been off route? After the pod crux, I moved left to the stance, moved over the bulge/flake thing, and then went about 5-10 feet left.

After the lead, I checked the guidebook, it mentioned a 20 foot 5.5 R section. Although I tend to place gear quite regularly, this runout (from just after the flake almost all the way to the bolts) was more like 40 feet. A fella after me said I was too far to the left.

What an unpleasant lead all around! Any thoughts about where the route goes after the flake, or regarding gear on the upper half of the route?

Cheers.

There is a runout there, but not 40 ft. You move left but then arch back to right where you will encounter good gear after about 15-20 feet. If you went left and then straight up without ever moving back right then you were off route a little. As I remember it seemed natural to trend back to the right. If this was a first 5.7 then I can certainly understand the discomfort between the open moves and the runout later on. The second pitch is really fun steep climbing. Did you do the 2nd pitch or rap?

AFAIK, there are two finishes to City Lights once you've cleared the bulge. The first traverses ~10 feet right, as Coppertone said, aiming for a left-facing shallow corner, then straight up to some shallow right-facing stuff. Second, you could do what it sounds like you did.

However, see this thread ...
http://www.gunks.com/ubbthreads7/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/38979/Main/3750/#Post38979

a fixed pin, which was barely-there anyway, just disappeared from the left finish to City Lights where it shares the Pas de Deux finish. The pin made the difference between PG and R/X (at least, psychologically!). So I'm hoping and expecting that something will re-appear there soon, because it would be sad to lose that patch of cliff to reasonable climbing.

When climbing City Lights (since the old "Stannard" fixed pin is gone on PasDeDeux), I would recommend doing as Coppertone says, and go up right after the flake and bulge to the short left-facing corner to join Patty Duke-it's a lot safer and nice climbing to boot.

Hmmnnn...

Bummer. So it sounds like I was possibly on pas de deux? I was thinking of doing that climb this weekend....but perhaps not if it's less than PG. I'm relieved to hear that others have had similar experiences (thanks Julie). I don't want to sound dramatic but it felt like the death fall potential big time. Have others also gone left?

Coppertone: City Lights is not my first 5.8/5.7, but I think 40 feet is one of my bigger run outs, and it felt like shit. I did not do the second pitch. I rapped off and did son of easy o. What a treat! I wish I could relead that for the first time all over again. I think I'm in love with the gunks...

The spot where the pin came out will take microcams. You could put in two or three, the crack is fairly long and Dick cleaned it all out. Probably Black Alien size. Not far above (within a body length), if you are on Pas de Deux, you can get some kind of good medium cam or nut, but you have to stay left at this point, which from the perspective of Pas de Deux would be continuing straight up, keeping a step left of the microcam placement(s). If you stay on the original City Lights path, you can still place the microcams but, after stepping right again, you'll miss the next Pas de Deux placement higher up and will encounter a substantial run-out.

Pas de Deux itself has been a little run out lower down for quite a few years now. I really don't think it is any more PG without the pin than it has been. (And remember, that pin has been providing strictly illusory protection.)

I've done the left finish to City Lights, and clipped The Pin in question. It's pretty similar, climbingwise, to the other finish. I wouldn't want to do it without the pin, or pro where the pin was. I don't envy your experience!

You should still do Pas de Deux, assuming that microcams will protect it - it's a good route, and you didn't climb the business of it. Then do the second pitch of either that or City Lights - they're good as well.

Julie even though you may have clipped the pin it sounds like you have actually been climbing it without the the pin for some time now. Of course Jedi Mind Tricks of thinking you are ok even though the gear you clipped is crap do work to make you more relaxed on lead.

City Lights is actually pretty protectable with just nuts. It makes it quite fun and probably safer than shoving a bunch of tiny cams in. All you need to do is know how to set multidirectional nut placements. It's PG sure...but definitely no worse than that.

RR

City Lights is actually pretty protectable with just nuts. It makes it quite fun and probably safer than shoving a bunch of tiny cams in. All you need to do is know how to set multidirectional nut placements. It's PG sure...but definitely no worse than that.

All right then. Case closed.